8,156 to 1.

If you are harbouring some thoughts of your ILIASM deal returning to, or magically morphing in to, the relationship you want, consider this.

There are currently 48,935 members here.

There are 6 credible members who have achieved the above.

There's the math. 8,156 to 1.
0.01226% if you prefer.

Tread your own path.
bazzar bazzar
56-60, M
18 Responses Aug 21, 2014

Gosh Bazzar, it seems I am one of the idiots who, even though I recently moved out, well, I suppose in some foolish way I am still wondering if somehow, someway, things will improve. I am giving myself a terrible headache. LOL
Thanks for the post. I need to wrap my head around reality.
Perhaps even slap myself in the face to wake up.

No leaver has to date come back on this board and said they wished they stayed with their refuser.

I'm not a member....anymore. Baz, can you do the math (include ME please!) on how many left and are now HAPPY?? Seems like there are many. Point being for those who equivocate: NO ONE cares more about your happiness and satisfaction (in love, in sex, in LIFE) than you do. Even though you "partnered up" and believed that that other person cared as much about you as they do about themselves? THEY DON'T. No one can or ever will. Human nature. It is up to YOU to change your situation to your satisfaction. I know it's hard--I did it, but it sure was painful--particularly if children are involved, but you simply MUST act in your own best interests (and of the kids, if there are any). We, the refused, will find it against our nature to put another in an "uncomfortable" situation, but that is EXACTLY what is required of us. I truly think it may be a self-esteem issue for so many of us. But imagine this: Putting yourself first, just this once. Peace (and I mean that...)

"Leavers" are uniformly happy Sister gbg. But this post isn't about them.

I am happy she posted here because we can follow a happy lead to branch off from the large number of stuck-in-on-place-maybe-quite-unaware population.

Thanks bazaar, I needed that slap in the face this morning :P

What the fk is wrong with us??


Statistically I have a better chance of probably hitting the lottery. At which point I'd give him his half and get out.

Lottery odds are waaaaay longer.

I know. :)
I just feel like the odds are better with the lotto.
One way or another I will be out in 4 years. I always enjoy reading your comments. :)

If all goes according to plan I will be out in 3 months, just getting all the parts worked out and together.

thanks Baz for the reminder...
I was just missing my ex for a bit ...but then I was reminded of the reasons why I had to leave. he checked out of our marriage first and then I checked out. there's no checking back in for either of us.

And now you're free to live.

i still have my long term depression and suicidal ideation to deal with. but today I told my new bf that I wanted to cry and be my usual sad self but when looking at him I couldn't even muster up a tear.

Sends a big hug to you - sounds like he's good for you.

lycheehcan: Are you getting professional help for your depression and suicidal ideation?

I've gotten professional help for it and although not at the moment, my situation is under control. I've worked really hard to even get to this point.

lycheechan, as someone who has suffered from the same problem, I hope you'll get professional help again because the world is so much brighter when you have that weight off your shoulders. You are worth the therapy investment again.

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My refuser H stated yesterday 'if you love your partner, you should stay in marriage, even if sexless!'.

A bit rude Fmina - if there's a genuine physical or psychological reason it's sexless then maybe stay. If it's sexless because one partner just isn't interested and has no intention of meeting the other's needs then it's just selfishness. LEAVE.

hah! to that one

this is the type of distorted thinking that gets us nowhere. my 60 year old refuser aunt always said that when a spouse stays even when there is no sex then that is true love. i won't buy into that BS one bit. i didn't sign on that dotted line for it to lead to sexlessness.

I say that when a spouse stays even when there's no sex, unless the lack of sex is due to a medical condition that prevents all forms of sex, then the refused lacks love, compassion and respect -- for themselves!

I've lived in a sexless and I believe loveless marriage for 8 years and just can not do it any longer, I believe it has caused health problems. If your sure its over, its time to get out and save your self if nothing else.

Refusers will use any argument -- no matter how selfish and ridiculous -- to attempt to keep their partners. That's a good reason why not to listen to them.

Mine has both physical and psychological reasons - and I know they are both genuine and not of her making and her inner demons and medical problems make my frustrations pale into insignificance. .

Sometimes there are real reasons, but I agree that in most cases it's just a lack of consideration or compassion. Just self centred thoughtlessnesd.

That sounds like something my ex-refuser would've said. They really are a creative bunch who can come up with endless reasons for their selfish behavior (which is always our fault!).

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Thanks bazzar....just going to cut my wrists.....

Seriously, I suspect that almost all of us know deep down that it will never happen - we're just working out if we stay or go.

me tooo

I see what you're trying to do. But your statistics are not accurate. I do this for a living.

Not every member counts as valid data. A majority of members post once (or never), and eventually disappear. Some only join to troll these threads. Some rejoin with new usernames. No one wants to sort through that except a desperate graduate student.

If there are 6 credible members who have returned to say they've been successful, that is still more than I expected. Sadly, if my marriage was magically fixed, I'm not sure I can guarantee I'd remember to return here and say so (but I'll try to).

I don't doubt that the statistics might be upwards of 1:100 against, but you won't get accurate data by counting people on EP.

Besides, the cause of the SM is different for everyone here. Some types might have better chances than others.

Frankly, I'm more optimistic than ever. Give me 5 more years of this and I'll reconsider joining your bitterness.

Good analysis on data collection.
It is also good to have hopes because there are people who wake up from a coma. Worth waiting. Just know when to quit waiting.

The problem with getting absorbed is the statistics is that you lose sight of the fact that it's thousands and thousands pf people who are being torn apart....

I don't know if I'd call that 'torn apart'. I am very much for the family value, but I'd be also happy to see people happy going on with their lives without having to sacrifice life-long and there are other methods on getting things rolling.
I have seen excellent parentship without having to live under the same roof.

Problem with looking at the statistics is that you lose sight of the thousands of people being torn apart

7Sparrows: What you call "bitterness" those of us who've gone through what you're preparing to do call "wisdom." When I was your age, I felt the same way you did. As a result, I married a man who was sexually averse to me, and I stayed married to him for 34 years --the last 8 of which and at least 5 others were completely sexless, and other years met the definition of sexless marriages -- before having the wisdom and self respect to divorce him. Now I'm in my 60s and finally am with a man who loves and desires me the way that I love and desire him.

Mettamomma: You are exactly right -- the people here do offer great wisdom and support. Any 1 year of a SM is tragic. I recognize the odds could be staggeringly against a recovery.
Yet, I can't help but bristle when I recognize a bad data sample. So many people make poor decisions from bad statistics. What was the purpose of this post? To suggest an earlier (but inevitable) divorce to minimize the anguish? I hope not.
My point: a sexless marriage is *not* a death-sentence (but it feels like it, doesn't it?). And, it is almost impossible to fix when one person refuses to acknowledge a problem. But, divorce must *always* be tread lightly. Regardless of the cause, spouses vow to do anything they can to save the marriage first. No one outside of the marriage can fairly judge when it's the last-resort. Statistics ought never help anyone decide when to give up -- it's unfair and devalues the vow of commitment.
I have so much respect for you, Mettamomma, for taking the necessary steps to finally be happy. I'm overjoyed that you finally have someone who loves, respects, and desires you the way you deserve. We all want that.
I will 'tread my own path', be it sexless for now, to save my marriage through whatever any means first. Statistics be damned. If I do eventually divorce over a SM, I hope it'll be because I'm convinced it's the last option.

You make a claim that - "the stats are not accurate".
Perhaps you'd care to set out what the accurate facts are then.

Well, I'm afraid the data on EP is going to be skewed or biased no matter how you count it. The best way to be accurate is to do a multi-year clinical study of couples in sexless marriages.
Or, a less-accurate, but probably more realistic option is to just do a huge blind survey of all couples. It must not being collected exclusively among those seeking help / support for a sexless-relationship. Still a big under-taking.
I've found articles mentioning that there are psychologists and sociologists studying this right now. It's a hot subject in academia. Especially looking specifically at "how" sexless marriages can recover. Not sure if any valuable papers have been published yet, though.
Here are reliable statistics and research, though not aimed at success-rates:
The Big Facts:
1) The longer a marriage goes without sex, the less likely it will recover.
2) The happiest result is usually divorce / moving-on to new partners.
3) Sexless or sex-starved marriages are more common than previously thought.
4) Researchers are still trying to figure out the facts and statistics.

None of "The Big Facts" to which you refer are in dispute.
In fact they are pretty much accepted as fact within this group. Story after story after story attests to them.
The anecdotal evidence (at least over my time here (Feb 09 to Aug 14) is overwhelmingly that ILIASM marriages chances of recovery hover at very close to zero.
But naturally, just about everyone who arrives here reckons they are going to be the one that beats the odds.
Key to all this is the type of marriages that find there way into this group. They are very much at the arse end of the spectrum. They are NOT your average jaded marriage. They are the basket cases. Where the member has tried everything else they can think of to address the position and have come up empty.
And, then, in desperation, have googled "sexless marriage" as the last resort, the last throw of the dice.
Naturally, this group is NOT going to mirror the results one might see in a study of your 'average jaded marriage'. Because the marriages seen here are NOT your 'average jaded marriage'. They are very much at the extreme of the demographic.
For the most part, if they were fixable, they got fixed long before the refused spouse even thought of googling "sexless marriage"

yea i left 8 months one o f my many names is gypsyblu

Good to see you again blu.
And you are out ??
That's great.

yea i left in Jan

That's great news gypsyblue / westsideblues.


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All the people on this page should form support groups and meet up, it would be one hell of a sex party.

**** at your place......

Yer ,i'd like too

Sigh ... thanks for that Baz :o( Pushing brown stuff uphill aren't we :o(

I wonder were they men or women?
I would hypothesis more men because it seems easier for a woman refuser to 'let go' and 'surrender' to the act then it would for a male refuser spouse to suddenly become the instigator/ initiator of sex.

Let's be honest now .... really?
What do you mean it is easier for women to extricate themselves from a bad relationship? It is no different for a women, and of course they have things to loose from making this decision. Men and women both have emotions and concerns about separating from their partner or spouse.
I think it's dreadfully difficult for both men and women to dissolve a relationship, for all kinds of different reasons, whether it's access to children, being able to afford to live alone again, the sheer emotional drain/hurt, finding the courage to be single when all your friends are married or in relationships, trying to find yourself and fit into your new "space".
Everyone has a lot to loose, but also a lot to gain, whether you're male or female. Now that is being honest about it!

don't pay any attention to some he is a long time women hater who once got kicked off of e/p under a diff name ... for child love

Westsideblues ... ooohhhh, eeeewwww. Looked at some of his other comments, and yes, seems to be a woman hater!

yep one of his old names is greenbare he is into peeing in public places etc showing off his penis etc

I have never posted ONE anti-men comment. Please show me an example of what you are referring to someetc. I'm 100% sure you won't be able to justify that ridiculous claim!!!

Your comments are true, only for yourself Some(etc). There are many wonderful men in ILIASM who don't and would not share your skewed view of women.

I think it's a lot easier for men to leave marriages. Typically men have higher incomes and are more easily employable due to gender bias and the fact they probably haven't taken time off from work to raise kids. Women typically take on the bulk of the childcare after divorce, and that makes it harder for them to get work and to juggle alone working and raising children. This particularly is hard for women who aren't in professional jobs. If, for instance ,she works for Walmart, her hours will change weekly, and that makes it very difficult to arrange childcare.

Also many women know that it's unlikely their husbands are caring or responsible enough to pay the court-ordered money for their kids. Many men also don't bother to follow though with their custody responsibilities.

In addition, women are more likely to date and marry a man with children than men are likely to marry women with children.Men also have access to a wider age range of prospective partners to select from. While most men are not interested in becoming involved with women who are older than them, women typically are willing to become involved with men who are even much older than they are.

Women have nothing to lose? In general, women are much more likely to have a major financial downturn after a divorce and to bear the sole responsibility for child rearing. Even if child support is court-ordered, many men manage to avoid it.

In addition, it can be harder for women with kids to find good romantic partners because most men don't want to date women who already have children.

The older women get, the fewer available partners there are for her, too, because not only do men die at an earlier age than do women, but men have a broader age range of partners to choose from since women are more likely to date older men than are men to date older women.

I think it's amusing when Americans never think that there's a "rest of the world". From my limited understanding, even in the USA divorce settlements can vary greatly due to state law.

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That doesn't seem like an accurate way to access the possibility of a better relationship. And a very discouraging percentage. Why be so discouraging by promoting this idea with questionable methods ? :(

Would you point this SM group to the few success stories instead? Please do list them. Someone might get help from that.

All suggestions as to a better method of calculating are most welcome. Do you have such a suggestion ?

Not exactly, as it has been many years since my statistical analysis course but i wonder if you considered some of that 43k+ may have moved on without reporting their success story.

I'd suggest that the people who moved on without reporting their success story would be similar to those who moved on with no success story to report.
We could speculate on that forever. It's an unknown.

The only way to do this with any accuracy is by anonymous survey. Sample size and the questions asked would have to be analyzed for appropriateness. Then you would need to repeat the survey after a period of time to see if the stats match up with the first survey. Yeah, I've done these types of studies before in grad school.

Within my stories those 6 persons are listed. Can't remember which story, but you are most welcome search them yourself.

Ok- i see your point thanks

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Maybe someone is lucky :)

Could be, but that then makes 8,155 'unlucky'.

True ;(

luck is what you make of it. count it as a blessing and get the **** outta there. mourn the loss of your marriage and then move on.