I Can Now Truthfully Say This! (UPDATE - 4/7/09)

 

Well, I truly, a former denier, never thought I would truly belong to this group!

I don't know if you all ever remember reading a story I put on here (and must have deleted during a difficult and upsetting time last week) - I entitled it : "Not Anymore."

It was about a commitment that I had made to my husband that every Friday night would be HIS night - if you know what I mean - and I stuck to it - I think there were times he was testing me by trying to irritate me about anything seeing if he could get me mad and make me say never mind to him - it didn't work!  I kept that commitment - and no, I didn't just lay there - I made sure he was truly truly happy.  But each week, he would get less and less affectionate - the last time - no kissing at all or even close enough to try and kiss him - it was wham bam thank you ma'am - literally 5 minutes - done!  And since we sleep in separate rooms - he got up and went back to his room and that was it.  I wanted to say, hey, don't forget to leave the money on the table as you leave!  Good grief!

Well 3 nights later, he said something and it triggered something in me and I shared with him how I was starting to feel - thinking, in the future Friday Nights, he will be aware of these things and change them - Naaaahhhh - that would be too easy.

He came to me yesterday, early evening and said, "you don't have to keep your promise"  I told him that I wanted to do that for him - give him that release - relieve his stress a bit - improve his mood for a day or 2 but he said no and that was it.

So, now it is time for the famine - and the damnedest thing is that my libido is way up and has been for about 4 months or so and shows no sign of easing up!  It figures!  Anybody know a good sex toy shop online??  LOL 

(April 7, 2009) UPDATE:  I guess I misunderstood (although, I don't think I did - I just think he regretted his decision) - the next Friday night after just skipping one - my husband came to me and said, "So, we're still on for tonight, right?"  I responded, "I thought you didn't want to do that anymore."  DH: "Oh, I just meant last week."  So, I told him that I was confused and must have misunderstood.  Anyway, he wants the Friday nights - and I am back to having no idea what he wants and what will make him happy and how he really feels about me because the Friday nights are still like they were - and that is such an empty feeling.

I am sorry that many of you misunderstood the situation of my marriage - and I am sorry that I couldn't give you the proper background to see where I have come from - some of the comments were harsh and hurt my feelings - I didn't expect pats on the back or sympathy if you didn't feel it - but I also didn't expect attacks.  I have talked to someone that I have come to respect a great deal in this Group and on EP (we have pm'd a bit back and forth) and I voiced some of my hurt and he has been very kind.  I told him something that I have observed in this group - sometimes when a person opens up in this group and mentions that they are the spouse that is denying - it becomes a bit of a feeding frenzy - I would ask that you take each person that braves this group - no matter which side they fall on - and try to keep your mind open until you have all the facts.

I think that many of your situations SUCK - I am sorry that you have unresponsive spouses - really BUT I guess I was hoping that many of you would see that I am not the typical DENIER - I don't want to deny - I love sex and my husband and I had a good sex life WHEN we had one - I don't have to have mushy-gushy romantic feelings all of the time to be responsive or even to initiate - it doesn't always have to be about "making love" every time BUT I think that each of us can understand that if we are married, that when our spouse wants to be intimate with us (and this goes both ways) - they want to be intimate with US - they at least LIKE us and choose US - I don't think anyone wants to feel like we happen to be the closest person available for sex, so you'll have to do.  The way that my husband ignored me, left me alone, looked at me like I was a fly buzzing around his head when I talked to him - those were not the actions, in my mind, of a person that at least cared about me as a friend or partner.

I do NOT think that sex should be used as a weapon to hurt the other person - I do NOT think that sex should be used as a bargaining tool and I do NOT think that sex should be a negotiated task.

What I need to be responsive is truly not much - I have never had a problem being responsive when I have felt that my husband at least appreciated me for being me - and liked me - not loved me - not cherished me - not doted on  me or served me and worshipped me - just acted like he actually liked me - and then the people-pleaser personality kicks in and I want to please him so I respond positively and I initiate - this is one of those rare times I will readily admit - I am that EASY!

 

 

DorothyofOz DorothyofOz
41-45, F
17 Responses Mar 21, 2009

You have my utmost sympathy. Like KFC I'm sorry you felt criticised previously - I hope you understand that this is such a "world of pain" for those of us on the receiving end of our refusers that it can be hard to be ob<x>jective.<br />
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I truly understand about your children, but do ask yourself this question. . . . Do I want my children to grow up with our marriage as their model for THEIR future relationships?<br />
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Many posters on the forum find themselves facing the same dilemma, and it is a very difficult one to resolve. We feel we should (must?) stay together "because of the children" - but there are many valid reasons why this is not always a good choice.<br />
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Hopefully others in a similar position will come along and post on this subject for you. But do remember that one happy parent (you!) is better for kids than 2 unhappy ones.<br />
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My warmest wishes for a better and happier future.

That is so nice KFC (why do I think of chicken when I type that??).<br />
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How I would love spontaneous - Monday morning, middle of the night, another night of the week (God forbid) - I am/was totally open to spontaneity - but IN ADDITION, I wanted him to know that Friday was the LEAST he could expect.<br />
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We have done the counseling thing and I am afraid that the problems are too far gone but I don't know - my heart is hardened - so I am going to individual counseling to see if I can get myself to the right place - in it or gone.... And marriage - if I get divorced, I don't know if I will ever do it again - I will at the very least take a LONG time to get to know someone and I won't be shy about what I ask while getting to know them - better to be embarrassed while dating and have him leave than deal with a monumental issue and be married to it! LOL<br />
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Thanks for the kind words and I hope you are finding the peace that you need too (or have you already??). And I felt like you also understand and you worded it differently - I am going to borrow that if you don't mind?!

I think I understand what Dorothy is saying, maybe because I'm looking at it from a woman's perspective. All she wanted was a little "love" from her husband in order to feel loving toward him. Woman require (typically) more of an emotional connection to engage than men do. Over years, **** builds up and people stop communicating, talking and connecting, and that results to no sex. She wasn't denying him sex, she was asking him to be a little more involved in her.<br />
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I think your problems require some counseling or even sex therapy. I think what Zorbas is saying is that to schedule sex for Friday nights seems a little cold. Can't it be spontaneous once in a while. What if you wake up on Monday morning and want it?<br />
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I don't know why marriage has to be so difficult. Dorothy, I am sorry if people were not nice to you. I appreciate your coming here and sharing with us.<br />
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Good luck to you. I hope you and your husband find the peace you need to be happy.

And there in is the problem - I am 43 and I too fear that my marriage is never going to bring me the happiness I deserve - although I also have a problem with the "deserving" part - what I deserve changed when I chose to have 2 children, didn't it? Don't we have to sometimes lower our expectations in life so that we can do what is best for our children? I.E. I can't throw myself 100% into local politics - I LOVE IT - love fighting the good fight - but I have to wait to do that because to do all that I want to do in it - I would be neglecting my children. What is the breaking point for marital expectations - when is the marriage good enough that I just need to shut-up and accept it so that my children grow up in a 2 parent home (which means that I have to work on improving my ability to keep my mouth shut in front of them when I am feeling frustrated - learn how to voice my frustrations only to their father and in a constructive way - actually I need to learn how to do that regardless - lol)? When is the marriage to the point that my children would be better off with us NOT living together? These are my quandaries right now!<br />
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I am just so relieved that someone seems to understand me finally - I don't WANT to be the denier/refuser - and never saw myself that way - but the attitude made me feel uncared for.... Has he changed? He changes - he makes efforts - I acknowledge them and for a time, I really got my hopes up each time - but if he viewed my attitude as not changing enough fast enough - then he would quit/give-up and revert to the grumpy, moody, passive aggressive person that I predominantly "enjoy" the company of in our marriage.<br />
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I don't know if he is truly a "jerk" but he acts like one a lot - he is very very depressed and has self-esteem issues - plus his family - they are like this - and he seems to be becoming more and more like them every day - and that is too bad because I have tried to like them and be kind to them - and I still do not like them - they are very unlikeable people!<br />
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So, what am I saying? I have no idea - LOL! It is time for some professional help for ME (we have done the marriage counseling thing 4 times for extended periods - it helps briefly and then we are right back to where we started or worse).<br />
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Thanks for your comment - I am hoping that some of the previous commenters come away with the same understanding that you do - I never know if I say things the right way.

It is great that you updated your story because it makes your position clearer. <br />
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Am I right in thinking you found it difficult to have a loving and sexual encounter with your husband when he was not showing you any appreciation in any other part of your shared life, but simply wanting to have sex with you? Is it correct that this attitude of his is what lead to your refusing at times?<br />
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If so, I can quite understand how you felt. What I am now wondering though, is "has he changed?"<br />
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If he is still treating you in this uncaring and cavalier fashion, it is doubtful that even your attempts to get things back on track will truly work.<br />
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Despite everything, it seems to me that he may just be a jerk! Forgive me for saying this, but if he continues to treat you in such a totally uncaring way (as you said "leave the money on the table" way), then he really is NOT worthy of you.<br />
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You sound like a person who doesn't want to be a refuser but who was pushed into it by his behaviour. Now you are remedying your part (Friday nights!) but he has made no effort on his part.<br />
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Think carefully about this marriage - I fear it is never going to bring you the happiness you deserve.

Zorbas is right. When intimacy dies, and trust dies, the marriage is never the same. After years of being denied my lover no longer desires his wife, although now she wants, as you say, to make sure he gets his "relief" at home. He can't do it. And has told me that when they were having regular sex by schedule every Saturday, that was almost as big a turnoff as being refused was later on. No consistant sponteniety, no passion, no experimentation. No intimacy. That's when it was 'good' <br />
:rolleyes: Lesson from Mira Kirshenbaum, "If it was never very good, it will never BE very good."<br />
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And, p.s. The Rabbit does nothing for me....

Adam and Eve. Don't really reccomend the rabbit. I tried it and didn't like it. Sounds as if your sex life has always been about you taking care of his needs. He has gotten use to that. He has not had to be concerned with your needs. Stop taking care of him. I know it was a promise you made but you have to remember there were promises he made when you married that he is not keeping either. Wake up smell the coffee! Stop being concered about his needs and start to focus on yours. Maybe that will jolt him back to realty!!!

Deguarddog I fear has hit the crux of your dilemma. Whena marriage ceases to create an aura of intimacy and real caring there is very seldom a return to the uption world one first envisioned. It much like the old nursery rhyme of Humpty Dumpty who when broken all the king's horses and all the kings men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again. <br />
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It is true of marriage as wellwhen that bond of trust is broken , love evaporates and never can it be the same.<br />
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Your approach to sex was too unemotional, lacked spontaneity and seemed contrived. Under your conditions I would take a pass on it as well.<br />
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Sorry to sound harsh about this but intimacy cannot be put into a timetable. It is either desired or not but never should it be used in the confines of a schedule. It appears too much like a duty to be performed unwillingly.<br />
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I wish you well but my perception is that your marriage will become like many of ours here. A contrived compromised existence that will as time passes cause a litany of regrets.

Okay guys - maybe I shouldn't have called myself the denier - because truly we have never been as sexless as most of you. I am glad that I didn't know that some of your spouses have been denying you for years. The longest space between times was 2 months and that was when we were really NOT getting along...<br />
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I am NOT reaping the consequences of being the denier - if he is trying to teach me some kind of lesson - he is going to lose with that - I am done with the passive aggressive behavior and he has already done everything he could possibly do to make himself unattractive to me anyway (and I don't mean picky little things women want when they expect to be treated like princesses - I got over any expectation of pampering long ago). If anyone's love and desire should be killed - it would be ME! God, not all of you that are without sex are victims! Some of you, certainly not all, are reaping what they sow!

It sounds as if you're experiencing the results of being a denier too long. It's not the first story I've read where someone turned around from being a denier only to discover too much damage had occured and killed their partner's love and desire. I sincerely hope this isn't true in your case.

Not too long of a response at all DorothyofOz. Thanks for taking the time to explain the situation. I understand you much better now.<br />
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I wish I could ad some wonderful advice, but honestly, I've never experienced a situation like yours. And a very difficult situation it is...

The way you worded things did not make me feel like you were criticizing and I know what you are saying. I had/have been the Denier in the relationship for completely different reasons than to punish or hold it over his head or anything. I had posted, but now i don't know where that I WANTED to be sexually active with my spouse. I had blood tests, etc.... We have spoken with numerous marriage counselors - but sex isn't the real issue for either of us (he just likes to think it is) - I am sure that he still wants sex and wants it with me but I shared with him how HIS lack of involvement the last couple of times has left me feeling used instead of connected on any level. I am an extremely passionate person in almost everything I do. My problem has never been about the actual act - it has been about feeling loved by my spouse so that when we had sex (even if it wasn't love making), I knew that he wanted to have sex with ME - not just the most available person that he was allowed to have sex with. Do you know what I mean? Once I said ok or initiated or was persuaded and gave in - then I really got into it and I am a passionate, responsive, reciprocal lover. I never view it as a process - maybe I should have sometimes because I, for awhile, had to be feeling so warm and wonderful and romantic to get in the mood - this is not the case now - but it took awhile for me to say to myself that it is okay to want sex sometimes just for the sexual pleasure it gives the both of us.<br />
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So, I guess that I said this really, but he hasn't lost interest, he just says that now that I have shared with him how I felt by his lack of intimacy, he is feeling guilty (which really was not my ob<x>jective) and I guess he is punishing himself. <br />
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Over the years of our marriage, I have been so open to us working things out and I would get my hopes up constantly (I just tend to always have hope and I think the best is going to somehow eventually happen) and after a little while, he would just give up - and revert to old habits that he says are who he is - I can't imagine that being grumpy, moody and passive aggressive have to be permanent personality traits - but he would resent any efforts that he made and say basically IT wasn't worth it - What is IT? Is IT me? Is IT our marriage? Neither answer to that question makes me feel very good or very optimistic. He has seen living proof that when I feel loved by him - just in the way he looks at me or treats me (nothing elaborate - just treating me like someone that he likes being with), that I AM very responsive to the point that he usually has to cry "Mercy" because he needs a little break - he's exhausted!<br />
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I am telling you all this hoping that you are getting the true picture of the situation.... I made the commitment so he could relax and not necessarily worry about how he interacted with me - he was gettin' some guaranteed at least one night a week.<br />
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We had a big confrontation last week after the kids were in the bed, and I still offered to keep my promise and I didn't say it in a martyr type of way, but he said NO - he didn't want me to do that. I don't know what it mean.... but it isn't because he has lost interest in sex.<br />
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Sorry this was so long - I have so many things running through my head.....

Now that I've given that advice, let me ask a question DorothyofOz? Do you know why your husband has lost interest in sex? Have you talked to him about it?<br />
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I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing or questioning you in the least, but I ask the above questions because your comment:<br />
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"...I wanted to do that for him - give him that release - relieve his stress a bit.." caught me eye.<br />
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And I say that because my wife has that view of sex--that it is simply a process used to create an ****** and release sexual tension and stress. She sees sex an nothing beyond a physical action. She does not understand it isn't the sex act so much I miss in our nearly sexless marriage. It is the emotion, the passion, the desire, the love expressed during love-making that I miss.<br />
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In fact, after yet another fight about the subject my wife finally agreed to try harder to be a sexual partner. Yet after three times in the last two weeks I realize that emotionless, passionless sex is NOT better than no sex. After just three times, I'm now losing interest in her sexually. She will never get it. She will never understand sex is about far more than the physical act.<br />
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Again, please realize I'm not criticizing, just asking.

The Rabbit. Try the Rabbit!!!<br />
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I've never met a woman who has tried the Rabbit that didn't love it.

Only on EP such great recommendations! Thanks - I will not be announcing whether I avail myself of their services or not.

Blowfish.com has the most beautiful sex toyx- works of art. High quality and they rate the toys.<br />
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Babeland.com has great toys and they take an educational point of view about them- will tell you that jelly toys can cause skin rashes and which toys should use condoms.

adamandeve.com and if you enter the codeword 'blue' you get your first purchase half price...lol