Is There Anything Worse Than Sex?

 It occurred to me that our partners not only find sex a chore or a waste of time but also that they patently dislike it strongly or even hate it unless on the odd occasion that they may be in the mood.

 

Our low libido partners may not like changing a babies nappy but they will do it.  They may not like doing the washing up or cleaning the toilet but they do it.  They may not even like their full time job but they do it every day for hours even if they have a headache. We can think of dozens of other things which they do not like doing but they still do them.

 

It seems that our low libido partners will do a whole host of things which they really would rather not do but they do them because these things need to be done.

 

Then it comes to sex, caressing, cuddling, long lingering sensuous kisses and massaging and stimulating every part of each others bodies until every inch of skin has received its hungry tactile reward. Although this is a vitally important contact sport for us it is something which our partners will not do even though they know that we need it as much as oxygen or water.

 

We can assume that they actually intensely dislike or hate or cannot find it in themselves to participate in sensual or sexual contact. Our partners can spend hours during the week doing things that they do not enjoy but the biggest and most fulfilling joy to us, that of sensual contact, is something in which they cannot bring themselves to participate.

 

Logically it would seem that there are very few things in their lives that our partners find worse than sex. It would be really interesting to ask our low libido partners what they think is even worse than physical contact or sex!

richardkiss richardkiss
56-60, M
18 Responses Feb 17, 2010

Hi Guys,<br />
<br />
Thank you very much for your enthusiastic responses all gratefully received.<br />
<br />
Has anyone actually been able to ask their partners what odious things they would rather do than actually having sex with their beloved spouse? <br />
<br />
Or is a sexual encounter so truly awful that they just cannot even imagine anything so dire?

Richard, I'm late in responding to your comment to me: <br />
"..If endorphins and other happy chemical are released into your partners blood stream during sex then it may be that he would become slightly addicted to them and wish to perform at a greater frequency. Just a thought."<br />
<br />
Hmm, not sure who this advice is suited to. For me, there was more sex early in the marriage (not as much as I'd like but 'more'). So, if he had the endorphin release from love-making it was not addictive nor did it create the desire to perform at a greater frequency. I suspect most spouses would say the sex was stronger earlier and tailed off ... how does that synch up with the happy chemical release. Heck, I feel the happy chemicals, so I'm not denying it exists. But .. not sure how this helps me with my husband. Ah but at this point, I'm done with trying to entice him. That is a reasonable consequence of lack of affection, intimacy, etc. Best! -Y

Windylinyx,<br />
<br />
Do you remember the square toilet paper in boxes we all used to use years ago called izal. It was hard and shiny on one side and rough on the other. Well here comes the rub. If you use izal your izal water.<br />
<br />
My wife has been asking me why I'm saving up all the empty toilet rolls. I have just told her that I'm waiting for an crafty Irish, French American gal to tell me what to do with them.<br />
<br />
Windy are you really having fun dating again, it sounds really exciting. I guess even if we don't want to ask a new date how much does intimacy means to you I guess if we wait a few days we will soon find out. Have you found that it is every bit as exciting as when you were younger?

Longplay,<br />
<br />
From your post it sounds like you are one of life's givers. You try to think of others first and work out ways in which you can help people in the ways that they want to be helped. You indicate that maybe your wife is a receiver and so the more you give the happier she may be to receive. The trouble is that it means that you end up trying to do the work of two people which seems very unfair.<br />
<br />
You say that you have enabled her behaviour of hardly ever having to do much that she doesn't like doing. I just wonder whether if you have enabled her to only do things which entertain or please her then is it possible to now enable her to start trying things which require a bit more effort from her. Would she really think that you were being unfair if you explained that you work so many stressful hours to pay the bills whist she pleasantly passes her time knitting? I don't quite know what you would like your wife to do which would improve your life apart from intimacy but you could gradually entice her into maybe even taking up a part time job as I'm sure that a bit of extra money is always welcome even if it is saved and invested to give you both a better retirement.<br />
<br />
What I'm trying to say is that just as you have enabled her behaviour of taking the easiest options or those options requiring the least amount of effort then in the same way you may be able to lean on her a little bit to encourage her to set goals which are not necessarily the easiest but ones which will certainly give her more feeling of achievement. You do so much to please your wife so it would be fairer if she were to think of the things she could do to please you including sex and intimacy.

Windy, <br />
If you meet somebody that you think might turn out to be your last love, ask him if he plans to be a refuser.

RichardK and ennA, <br />
You guys can generalize all you want. Have at it. I mean, if refusers were like grizzly bears and road-side bombs, solutions would be simple: learn to recognize them ahead of time and stay clear away.

"1) The other "dirty" tasks have obvious or immediate consequences if they're ignored - that diaper starts to stink, the baby starts to scream, and the rash becomes a problem for days. Lack of intimacy causes longer-term (and disjointed) effects, and the cause isn't obvious. (If we moved out after a week of no sex, they'd correlate the cause & effect, but when we stick around after years of crap sex they just see us as a miserable person and they're surprised when we snap.)"<br />
<br />
This was what I allowed to happen. I kept it all inside and she probably though, or wished, that all was OK. By the time I "snapped" it was my problem, not hers.<br />
<br />
The hardest part for me is that my wife actually has hardly ever had to do much she doesn't like doing. I've enabled that behavior, in sex and other normal activities of an adult, and she now takes for granted that I work and she sits home and knits and does the least that needs to be done. She's started the refusing from the get-go, but I've been an enabler and now have to live with the consequences.

Anne,<br />
<br />
You bring a warm feeling to my heart and make me smile from within. <br />
<br />
It is like I am meeting a more sane and balanced version of myself. I am never surprised at your views because they are invariably my own. <br />
<br />
We are all trying to find our own truth which also reflects, overlaps and is shared by the truths of others. If we can't find the answer inside the box maybe it is outside the box or between the different boxes. Words are the powerful bullets to propel our ideas and imagination.

Richard, thank you for your response to AC. He and I have an ongoing dialogue about this subject. . . !<br />
<br />
He is correct in saying that "There is no set of logical rules that should be used to arrive at the correct explanation for why an individual acts" IF you expect 100% correct responses.<br />
<br />
But does this mean that we should refrain from ever trying to understand anything through generalisations and through analysing similarities and differences? In my opinion, the answer is a resounding "NO"! <br />
<br />
Your comment:<br />
"Just as a doctor or psychologist diagnoses the problem from gathering together all the relevant symptoms we may also be able to gain insight into the minds of our partners from the wealth of information we can gather from others who share our plight"<br />
exactly reflects my position on this matter.

Windylinyx,<br />
<br />
Sorry that you deleted all your posts to this site. I am sure that you gained greater insight into your marriage and emotions by formulating your stories so even though you did not leave them to posterity<br />
the action of writing down the words must have clarified your thoughts. <br />
<br />
You mentioned that you were in a joke mood when you sent your first post so I wonder what you think of this very inappropriate and poor taste offering.<br />
<br />
I have found a new way of cutting the family's toilet roll bill in half. It's easy, just use both sides of the toilet paper. I heard this on Radio 5 Live (England) a couple of days ago.<br />
<br />
AnarChristian,<br />
<br />
From the minute we leave the womb to the minute we leave this mortal coil we spend our lives trying to figure out the meaning of life, causes and effects, order and disorder and as you so rightly say millions of other combinations of the same and the differences. <br />
<br />
If we refrain from our natural inquisitiveness and imagination we will never move forward because doing the same things in life and thinking the same thoughts will give rise to the same results as we have already. We do not like or are not satisfied with what we have already so it is only by looking for answers that we can improve our lot. Optimism gives rise to an open mind and possible change whereas if we accept begrudgingly that things can never get better then we no longer search for answers or nuances of improvement.<br />
<br />
Statistically speaking we are all a bunch of lab rats because we all share similar human traits.<br />
As with height, weight, IQ, or any other feature, these can all be seen to follow the normal distribution curve. So it must also be that if we statistically analysed thousands of the so called refusers or low libido people the we may find that a certain percentage of them had been sexually, physically or psychologically abused, some were lacking in testosterone, some experienced pain during intercourse, some were on libido dampening medication, some had fallen out of love with us, or indeed any amount of other relevant reasons affecting their libidos. Just as a doctor or psychologist diagnoses the problem from gathering together all the relevant symptoms we may also be able to gain insight into the minds of our partners from the wealth of information we can gather from others who share our plight.<br />
<br />
Thanks AnarChristian for provoking my thoughts.

" I'm still battling to try to understand the similarities and differences between our sex starved, tactile deprived members and our sexually unwilling partners. " <br />
Me too. However, I posit that such a battle is futile and it dismisses human individuality. That is not wise. You will never be able to generalize in a useful manner by which any one individual -- starting with you -- could relate. <br />
<br />
A zillion people drank a cup of coffee this morning -- myself included. Some of them did so because they find coffee delicious. Some of them did so because they are addicted to the caffeine. Some of them did so preventively so that they could wake up. Some of them did so for a combination of any of the above. <br />
If you treat coffee drinkers as a bunch of lab rats, all you will observe is that they all drink approximately the same amount of coffee at approximately the same time approximately ever single day of their lives. Our collective intellects will NEVER have the capacity to distinguish these habits from mere instinct, reflex, the fear of social ostracism or distinct preferences that happen to be the same. <br />
<br />
Replace coffee with marital sex or breathing oxygen. There is no set of logical rules that should be used to arrive at the correct explanation for why an individual acts.

AnarChristian,<br />
<br />
I'm still battling to try to understand the similarities and differences between our sex starved, tactile deprived members and our sexually unwilling partners. Surely with the combined power of our intellects we can get together a useful understanding of just what makes our partners behave in the way that they do and indeed what makes us so needy of their affections. At present I see very few of them coming forward to justify their stance which makes our progress of understanding very slow. <br />
<br />
andy1999,<br />
<br />
Thank you for your thought provoking points<br />
. <br />
If our partners have more regard for basic life duties than for our wants then maybe we should do a few of their basic life duties for them in exchange for sex. We could do several of their begrudged life duties for them and they in exchange let us do them (our partner that is!) <br />
<br />
My wife is very competitive and she thinks that she is no good at sex so doesn't even want to take part if she can't win at being a sex athlete. I tell her that she is absolutely gorgeous and really turns me on, it's just the frequency that is missing. She says that if she can't do it better than everybody else then she doesn't want to do it at all. When I say that maybe if we practiced more often she might feel that she was, in her mind, improving she becomes very upset. The difficult, unsurmountable task as she sees it is indeed sex.

DryCreek,<br />
<br />
You are a true analyst with a very useful part to play in our group. <br />
<br />
With many thousands of people in ILIASM and growing fast I believe that with our combined knowledge and wealth of ideas and thinking both inside, outside and between the boxes we can generate some useful advice to share with other poor souls suffering our abject sexual drought.<br />
<br />
I agree with your three points all very relevant. Maybe a fourth would be if they made love to us more often then we would expect it more often so making a still greater burden of chores.<br />
<br />
Tim1966,<br />
<br />
Welcome to our group. Would it be possible for you to encourage your wife to post her side of the story. We are so short of perspective from the other side. <br />
<br />
vegassbaby,<br />
<br />
If my wife doesn't like me squirming during sex I don't mind lying on the bathroom floor and pretending to be a toilet so that she could clean me. Even this lavatorial sex would be better than nothing.<br />
<br />
Yemanya,<br />
<br />
I do appreciate and understand your perspective. However if endorphins and other happy chemical are released into your partners blood stream during sex then it may be that he would become slightly addicted to them and wish to perform at a greater frequency. Just a thought.

LostinTheWoulds,<br />
<br />
I can appreciate that your wife has linked sex with sexual abuse if this has occurred in her life. I wonder whether this association could be removed by cognitive therapy or some other psychological method. If this is the only reason for her not wanting sex then maybe there is more hope than the majority of other cases of low libido.<br />
<br />
againmine52,<br />
<br />
I guess that we are just not making things too uncomfortable for our partners so that our complaints are not such a big deal as other odious tasks in which they will involve themselves. <br />
<br />
Windylindyx,<br />
<br />
It doesn't do much for our self esteem when our partner would rather clean the toilet than have sex with us! I wonder if they would rather clean ten toilets than have sex with us? Ten toilets and five nappy changes? Ten toilets, five nappies and a visit to the dentist? I've even made myself laugh now with the sheer absurdity of my own ideas.

VegassB, <br />
You are right: the toilet does not squirm but neither does it grow feet, walk out of the house and tell the refuser to fukc off. The point being that our refusers are either 1) not very bright ( i.e., they do not realize that their refusal has a wide range of consequences) or 2) they actually want to chase us away. <br />
<br />
<br />
RichardK, <br />
Your conclusions are not the only ones that can be drawn because the actions of our refusers do not have to follow any rules of logic.

I can't disagree yet I look at it differently. The sex, caressing, lingering kisses as you so eloquently describe .. I cannot accept from someone who treats it as a household chore. Love me, want me, and love me with passion ... or I'm not interested. And, yes, that is the state of my marriage -- my desire is gone. Did he think it was a chore, is he asexual, was it a several year slum, what was it -- I don't care!! I'm keeping my pride and moving on.

I am so glad I found this site. You guys are like a breath of freash air for me. Sometimes I am so sad over my sexless marraige that I feel just like walking away. BUT I CAN"T!

Hmmm. Very interesting perspective. Tying into this line of thinking...<br />
<br />
1) The other "dirty" tasks have obvious or immediate consequences if they're ignored - that diaper starts to stink, the baby starts to scream, and the rash becomes a problem for days. Lack of intimacy causes longer-term (and disjointed) effects, and the cause isn't obvious.<br />
(If we moved out after a week of no sex, they'd correlate the cause & effect, but when we stick around after years of crap sex they just see us as a miserable person and they're surprised when we snap.)<br />
<br />
2) Sex isn't "important + urgent", so it's always pushed to the back burner. By the time it becomes a flaming issue, the fix becomes overwhelming and they cower and shift blame instead of facing the music.<br />
<br />
3) They no longer respect their spouse enough to make the effort, to overcome their distaste or disinterest in sex.<br />
<br />
I think W is a mix of all three behaviors. There are always tasks that can't be put off at the end of the day, so she always comes to bed late and exhausted. (Hello? What happened during the 11 hours I wasn't home? And, yes, I share the load at home, despite being the sole breadwinner.)