Do You Really Want To? Marriage With A Muslim Man/ Woman...

Ehhhmm... I dont know how to put this without disrespecting someone else's beliefs but I got's to calls it as I sees it. If my niece, daughter, cousin or any female I know came to me with her muslim boyfriend and told me they were engaged to be married I would be distraught, deeply sad at the bondage she is unassumingly jumping into. Many people, muslims included, actually dont know a thing about islam and how women are treated under islamic law.

Did you know that it is permitted for a man to beat his wife with a stick? Apparently there are measurements for this stick. There are also rules concerning how the woman must be beaten, something like you cannot lift your whole arm or use your full strength to do so, swing from the elbow or something like that. Now tell me, how many times do you think these rules will be followed? And btw, the punishment can be for something as little as leaving the house without the husbands permission. Basically anything the husband deems to be wrong. That is not even the point, it should not be done in the first place.

Did you know that if a woman is raped, she has to have at least 4 MALE WITNESSES to confirm her story? I'm not kidding, look it up. Tell me, when is that going to happen? And if a woman is found not to be a virgin before being married she can be killed to preserve the familys "honour". So how would a young woman that has been raped ever find the witnesses to prove her innocence? She has obviously lost her virginity, not of her own will, how does she explain that? If she accuses a man he simply denies it and her family's "honour" is "tainted". So what happens? Sexual assaults on women go unpunished that's what happens.

And what about the whole, "You MUST convert to islam inorder to be married??? I mean HELLOOO!!! Any person that tells you that YOU MUST CHANGE for you to be with them is not the right person for you. It's similar to saying, you must grow your hair long if I will marry you, you must lose wait before I can marry you, you must change your LIFESTYLE if you are to be with me. Now, I know there are some insecure people out there who will do anything to please their partners, and most unassuming women usually find out about these rules when it's too late. They've fallen in love and they dont want to lose their partner. So they make this compromise. There is this couple I saw on a documentary on BBC, the husband was/is not religious if I remember correctly and the wife was/is muslim. So in this case the husband had to convert to islam. After he did so he thought that was the end of it. Guess what it wasn't. They had their first child, a boy. The wife's family was adamant that the child must be circumcised. The husband did not want this but the wife as well as the family were adamant that the child MUST be circumcised. I believe this has something to do with being muslim, similar to the jewish, you have to be circumcised to be considered a real jew in the religious sense, that is ofcourse if you abide by the torah (jewish manuscript/law of Moses & books of the prophets). Long story short the child got circumcised.

Whats the point? The person with the stronger beliefs will win the battle, that is if they do not wish to compromise. I do know of liberal muslims that are willing to compromise, in fact they compromise all the time. Did you know that the playing of instruments, music is considered forbidden / haram in islam. "Oh no now I know this guy is smoking something..." Google - "Is music haram" I think the only accepted instrument was the tambourine. Cool huh? I am only giving you information here, dont get mad at me, get mad at the facts. Furthermore, intoxicants such as alcohol are also forbidden is islam. I dont need to explain this.

Now you might be thinking, "Well if the muslim man or woman is not a strict follower of islam surely we can make things work?" Yeah you could. But do you want to take that risk? What if he/ she decides that they want to take their religion a bit more seriously? What if they decide that they want their children to adopt islam? What if, they decide to return to their homeland? Did you know that any children born in marriage belong to the man in islam? So if he decided that the children must live in Egypt, Pakistan or wherever you would have no say in this matter? Search for these stories, they are out there, this is not a myth. Bear in mind that a lot of people are unaware of these laws and restrictions, so they go along with it thinking, "How bad could it be..." Only to see their freedom taken away and their lives dictated by another. These things happen in many different cultures and many different religions, but I feel that the power and control islam exerts over its followers is extreme, especially its treatment of women. There is a degree of compulsion that is impossible to ignore. So take the time to look for this information. Sorry I could not provide direct quotes from the quran or the hadith, it's been such a long time since I discussed this subject.

Do not forget that marriage is a union between two people. And a loving relationship cannot be founded on one person dominating the other. I'm not addressing the BDSM lifestyle in which a person submits himself or herself to all sorts of things. That is usually consensual. I have a problem with that for many different reasons, programming and conditioning being one of them but that is a different topic altogeher. Marriage is about mutual understanding, sharing each other's goals, expectations, aspirations. Growing together and all that other good stuff. I'm afraid islam does not do a lot to promote these values.

Once again. I am not plucking this information from thin air. Do some research, learn a thing or two about your partner and ask him/ her what he /she really believes. And if they tell you something that is contrary to what their religion says they practice, ask for an answer as to why they do things differently. You might have a liberal muslim on your hands who isn't really that bothered about her religious background. However, do not forget that your partner's family may have a say in how you and your partner relate, every family has a level of influence on a couples marriage, ot may be positive or negative. Find out if there are any external influences.

Sorry for making this as long as it has become, it was difficult not to taking into account the subject matter. I hope this clarifies or helps some people.

Scorp
Scorpio1987 Scorpio1987
22-25, M
4 Responses Feb 11, 2012

No offense, but if you are this narrow minded, then you shouldn't have an opinion to begin with. Why would I say this you may ask? Well, I grew up in a Muslim country, have business in several Muslim countries and travel extensively to Muslim countries - the wife beaters you speak of are no different than the wife beaters in any country - UK, US, France, etc.

That is like saying "well, the Oklahoma City bomber was a white American terrorist so all white American men are terrorists" - see how this works?

Hopefully you'll be able to open up your world view and not be so close minded in the future. Best of luck to you. And FYI - "rule of thumb" is a British coined term, has nothing to do with Muslims.

You arrogant... Why don't you take a second to actually do some research and LISTEN to the testimonies of these women. Better yet why don't you read some of the comments of the women on this very post before you start opening your mouth to insult other people. I only wrote this story because of the testimonies of the women that suffered this abuse. These are facts, I didn't make anything up. To be honest I don't even know why I am wasting so much energy responding to you. You have clearly made up your mind as to what you think of me. One thing I will say though is DO NOT dare think that you can come up in here and disrespect a perfectly legitimate post which highlights the possible problems that can occur in this type of relationship. I am sure you feel pretty brave insulting me over the net, despite the fact that I have not personally attacked any poster on this thread. Don't take my politeness for weakness sir. Do not try it. Disagree yes, but do not disrespect. Okay?

First off, if you are going to argue with me, please use proper English as I don't understand a word you are saying. Calling you close-minded is trying to be brave - you seriously need some mental help lady. Do you wake up in the middle of the night thinking people are after you? lol It's only a "discussion" if you are being heard, but it's an argument once you think people are attacking you. Notice no one else here is agreeing with you? Should tell you something there champ ;)

You obviously can't read. Why don't you scroll down. I count at least two people that confirm my statements. Why don't you grow up and stop throwing petty insults around. It really shows how daft you are. Pretending that you can't understand what I'm saying. Really? Are you sure you're not actually 13 and not 30? Grow up man. Seriously. You're making yourself look silly. Read the comments below before you respond to this again. Champ ;-)

Do you have a mental deficiency? You are a kid and until you've actually experienced something other than living in your mom's basement, I would suggest that you open your eyes to the world; otherwise, you'll be a lonely little boy. I did read the comments above and below me and they echo exactly what I've said. Frankly, you are just trolling and you are quite boring. Hopefully a Muslim doesn't kick your *** in the near future, but if so, please get it on camera so I can laugh.......champ ;)

Are you deluded. Do you not see the testimonies posted by Pumpkinseeds and cameronr or are you just choosing to put your hands in front of your eyes when you see something you don't like. Your insults are really quite childish and your reasoning is even more juvenile. It appears you cannot have an intellectual conversation and therefore must resort to the only thing that you are adept at doing. Insulting someone whose opinion differs to your own. I have no more words for you and I really do not need to try to justify anything to you because you probably wouldn't understand a thing. A word of advice, pick up a book, learn how to argue constructively and stop with the childish insults. You're not even worth getting mad at.Take care.

I'm sure your parents are so so so very proud lol

Again with the childish insults? I really do wonder sometimes...

You sound like a broken record. Are you this stupid in real life as well or is this an internet thing?

Do you find insulting people who are not interested in your foolish antics entertaining? You're embarrassing yourself. I'm going to leave this here just so that people can see just how immature you are. I'm going to leave you to your games now.

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first of all, the stick thing is false, I can prove it because I was raised in a Muslim family. I have LEARNED the Sharia law and its many interpretations. that stick thing was followed in medieval Europe. NOT in Islam. In Islam, only light spankings are allowed. you cannot hit your wives or kids so hard that they get scars. also, the whole rape thing is because if Sharia law was properly followed, women wouldn't be out in public alone. they would have the witnesses with them because that's the law. that law was made because back in the day, that was the custom and it still is in most middle eastern nations. women rarely ever go out alone. also, in those days you couldn't prove rape without eye witnesses. they had no such thing as a rape kit. now all thanks to science you don't need the witnesses anymore because there are other ways you can prove you got raped. the whole you must marry someone of the same faith thing exists only because most people forget that differences in faith can and do cause turbulences in marriage. my christian teacher once told me she'd never marry outside her faith because she'd want to raise her kids to believe in Jesus and the Bible and what if her partner didn't allow that? people don't think of these things before getting married. they do actually create problems. i had an atheist friend who married a christian woman and they ended up getting a divorce because of their differences in their beliefs. these words look like they are spoken by a person who's never actually bothered to talk to Muslim scholars, live amongst Muslims in a Muslim community, visit or live in a Muslim nation or even try to have an open mind about the Islamic faith in general. sincerely, proud Muslim chica :)

Ehmm... I have actually spoken to many a Muslim. And these stories are not something I made up, they are TRUE STORIES from women who have actually LIVED through this, unlike you. So who is being closed minded and blindly believing? I was only prompted to write this because of some very painful testimonies I heard from some Muslim converts. Religious intermarrying is a big mistake in my opinion. It can only work if both parties are very liberal but this is a big risk to take as spiritual people are often blown by the wind to and fro. Who knows, one day one of them might decide to become more devout. Well, I'm glad that you were raised in a seemingly liberal home. Though you admit that "spanking" a grown adult is indeed allowed in Islam. I wonder who says enough is enough when this spanking is being administered. And I hope you allow your husband to do the same to you, a grown woman, if he sees fit. Read the comments below of other members. There's obviously a recurring theme here. I think this proves that my claims are indeed legitimate. Sincerely, discerning and opening minded.

I understand that you feel compelled to defend your faith but shouldn't you be more concerned about protecting the women and children who get caught up in this? Surely that is a more noble cause. The fact that this happens in many cultures and religions does not make it right or less evil. Personally I wish we could do away with religion. Alas some still feel the need to hold onto religions fear based and medieval ways of thinking. Don't look at how religion is practised now, that is a watered down version of what really was an oppressive set of rules set to govern people. Look at how it was. The texts that inspired such thinking. The men and women that drove such doctrines. Judge the religion not the people. The people can only follow what the book tells them to follow. So look at the book. What it actually says, not what we practise today. You will soon find that you don't like what the book says very much. Tread your own path.

yes you have read horror stories from the Muslim world. I have heard horror stories from the Western world. kids from broken homes, alcoholic father or absent, violent abusive mother, teenage pregnancies, divorces, etc. etc. How silly it would be if I assumed if I married a Western man he would just get drunk and leave me! and yet this website is FULL of Western people proving that stereotype true. actually, it depends on which sect of Islam you believe in. some sects believe no violence of any sort is allowed in the family, period. also, if my husband dared raise his hand on me, I would leave him. simple as that. there are plenty of people in the world who are fine with that kind of a relationship (don't believe me? check out some of the groups on here). I am just not one of them. I agree that religious intermarrying is a BIG mistake though.

I think you have the gotten the whole idea behind this post completely wrong. I am not saying that all Muslim men are like this... I was simply illustrating that there is a huge risk in marrying a Muslim man or woman, particularly a man because of the patriarchal nature of Islam, because of some of the Islamic beliefs which may be held by the Muslim man or woman you choose to marry. As I stated before, I wrote specifically on Islam because of the testimonies I heard pertaining to Islamic men and women. I was beginning to see a trend here and unfortunately, Islam consists of some of the most religiously intolerant people on this planet. I cannot go to a Muslim country and do what is acceptable in my religion or country. Example- Dubai. Talk about religious intolerance. You cannot deny the intolerance within the Muslim faith concerning other religions. Its not a coincidence that Islamic extremists get a lot of media exposure. I don't see any other group getting as much publicity. Once again, it is not every Muslim that is extreme. And not every Muslim is intolerant. But you cannot deny that religious intolerance and extremism exists is Islam more than any other religion. You just can't. So when people seemingly "pick on" Muslims, they are merely reacting to what they see. i.e. Muslims rioting over a film. Or an Islamic government arresting a couple for having sex on the beach. Whether you find those actions morally undignifiedor not is not the question. The messageis simple. "We are not very liberal and we will not tolerate any ideas that oppose our beliefs".

once again, the reason why Islamic extremists get more media attention is because the people who control the media (Zionists) want to paint a negative image of Islam. How else are they going gain support for their cause? Of course they are not going to tell you that Muslims and Christians have been coexisting peacefully in Muslim countries like Indonesia for a while now. Yes, there are minor conflicts every once in a while but conflicts between any group is unavoidable. Religious intolerance and extremism does not exist in Islam more than any other religion. Trust me, I went to a Muslim school and were actually taught not to hate other people, one of my teachers even told me what if after you died on Judgment Day you found out that your beliefs were not right? You better hope the other God(s) would let you off the hook so you better treat everyone with respect :P Also, there were riots over the riots done by Muslims over the film. of course the mainstream media is not going to give exposure to these people! they need to tell the world about how violent Islam really is! They will not tell you that in my neighborhood in Saudi Arabia, they actually had a CHURCH in my school. They wont tell you that the people in Dubai actually know they are not supposed to do these kinds of things because it offends the locals and yet they do it anyway. It's not just the Muslims, in India they are not allowing a Playboy Club to wear sexy outfits etc. why? because its against their culture. All I got from your post was, every culture should lose its traditional values and adapt to mine or else they are intolerant. Muslim women aren't allowed to wear a Hijab in France, tell me how that is any different from a Western woman being forced to wear a burqa in a Muslim nation? The only difference is that Muslim nations do not claim to be liberal. France, on the other hand, has laws that reek of hypocrisy...

btw, if mainstream media and my personal experiences and the experiences of my friends are to be trusted, women should understand that there is a huge risk in dating and/or marrying black men too. the media doesn't exactly paint a very pretty picture of you guys either. would you say its because you guys are naturally that misogynistic, violent & ignorant?

Let me just highlight one simple fact here. The mainstream media would not have anything to show if these violent acts were not perpetrated. Isn't that correct? And as much as it irritates me to see the media paint black men and women in a stereotypical fashion, it does depict a certain type of black man or woman. Stereotypes are usually closely related to truth. And when those stereotypes are backed up by experience, that stereotype is just reinforced. This doesn't mean that EVERY black person is like that, only an ignorant person would believe that. Likewise as i have stated time and time again. Not EVERY Muslim is like this, but some of them are. Do you deny that? That is my problem with your while argument. Your insistence on not wanting to admit that what these women say is true. To you it can't be true because you have never experienced it. This is the epitomy of being closed minded. I will be the first to admit that black men don't always paint themselves in a good light and I can give reasons as to why that is. I don't make excuses for them which you seem intent on doing. Why can't you admit the Islam is not all rosy? Do you feel that admitting to this truth will devalue your faith? Just accept that some Muslims out there don't really do the rest of you any favours. So can you blame the rest of the world for judging them?

wth? I never denied that these stories weren't true. I just said that saying that this only happens to Muslim women is a prejudice, not a premise. I am just angry and disturbed at the fact that you are ONLY singling us when domestic violence happens everywhere.

change that denied to said***

If you remember I did acknowledge that yes it happens to everybody and in different cultures, religions and societies etc. But it wasn't my mandate to cover EVERY single religion or society. If you wish to write a story about how black men behave I will only address the subject. i.e. Black men. Why would I need to bring in another race or culture if that is not what we are discussing. I am baffled as to why you feel I should have included every other culture. That wasn't the subject topic, simple. Does that make the story any less true? Instead of trying to play down the stories posted here by saying, "Yeah but it happens everywhere... I've never experienced it...etc" You should just acknowledge the fact and state that this happens in other cultures as well. I have never disagreed with you on that. Why you have to start saying how great Islam is...? I don't know. All I'll say is, it doesn't change the fact that this type of stuff happens.

Yes I know, I am not disagreeing. I am just saying, it's kind of hypocritical to say you're open minded and liberal if you're going to reinforce negative stereotypes.

Most stereotypes are based on evidence. Sad but true.

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Although I have many Muslim friends, I would say that many aspects of Sharia (Islamic Law) definitely deserve to remain in the Middle Ages.

One of my Mom's friends had to go through what you and Pumpkin$eeds have mentioned. She was seduced by a Muslim guy who was moderate initially, but became more and more controlling as time went on. To marry him, she had to convert her religion, and her parents disowned her - she had to completely uproot herself from her family and lost her support system. Her marriage became hell. According to Muslim Law, if the wife initiates the divorce, she must forsake her alimony; but if the husband initiates divorce, he must give alimony or 'Mehr'. And why would any Muslim guy take this risk by divorcing his wife when he can have four at one time? He became violent. The woman I am talking about had many pets while she was at school (she married young and foolish) - four dogs and many birds, squirrels, fish, etc. After she married, her husband told her that animals (especially dogs) are considered unclean in Islam and she wasn't allowed to keep any. She really missed her old life.

Thankfully she is happily divorced now.

Sadly there are many stories of this nature. This type of thing happens often and continues to happen across cultures and even religions, though I think that some religions are particularly oppressive more than others. I am glad to hear that your moms friend was able to escape the clutches of such evil.

Thanks for shedding light to the non suspecting. The information you have given is factual. I have been raised in an Islamic neighborhood and even had a muslim 'suitor'. I had been nicknamed 'Hadija' coz they coudnt pronounce my name. The guy told me how i would start 'Madrasa' and learn the laws. I was to be circumcised. He was a great guy but i rejected him. He turned his whole community against. I also believe relationships are for mutual gain and not a power struggle between spouses. The Islam religion has a lot of integration and should be adopted by people who are perserverant. Women are submissive in most of the laws and its a haram to disobey a male order. I admire the culture but not wholy

Thank you for your honesty silili4. Yes I have heard many stories of the burden placed upon women in Islam. It is sad, and it is abusive. I think that even the women that are brought up in islamic communities are afraid to speak out for fear of losing their family or even their lives as recorded in some cases. So they choose to suffer in silence instead, choosing to remain quiet in hopes for a peacful life. Just hoping that they marry a decent man. You showed great courage in rejecting this man. You are so young, still yet to see the world and experience the things that will eventually make up your being. Live a little, love a lot, follow your heart, but take your brain with you. Love. Scorp

lol, I was raised in a Muslim community by a Muslim family and I can honestly tell you neither I, nor any of my cousins or female friends are "suffering in silence".

I guess we should take your testimony as the one and only true testimony for Muslim women everywhere right? I am surprised that you would belittle someone else's experience's simply because they do not match with yours. That really is close minded. Why don't you get out of your own world for a change and TRY to see how others have suffered. I was raised in a family that didn't drink alcohol. Does that mean that everybody from my country never drank alcohol? It would be foolish of me to think that. Just as it would be foolish of you to think that other people have not suffered because of religious intolerance or discrimination etc. Open your eyes to see what others go through. Don't just focus on your own reality.

And by the way righteous. You do not know what people go through behind closed doors so do not assume you know everything that is going on.

How funny that *you* would tell me that. Your post reeks of hypocrisy. I never once claimed this doesn't happen in Islam. I only claimed this doesn't ONLY happen in Islam.

What hypocrisy dear? I think you are getting me confused. I generally do not oppose people that practise religion, but I oppose religion in itself. There's a difference. One is a people, the other is an organisation. I dislike most religions, especially mainstream ones, but I don't dislike the people that practise their chosen religions. What hypocrisy do you speak of?

I already replied to this statement above :)

Okay. I'm going to take a nap now. I should've been asleep ages ago. This conversation just reminded me exactly why I don't like debating religion. It never ends. :-) Scorpio tired. Must sleep.

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