How Do You Know??

Since I can remember I have always had a sense that there was something more, something I knew about but did not remember. I felt that things were not as they seemed, like there was something missing. Initially I came to the conclusion that there was nothing beyond, there was no God, and my focus was on science, sociology, psychology etc. This was the basis for my life, my existential framework, the paradigm in which i lived and worked.

However I moved from atheism to faith. After a really really troubled time I began to question life, and my purpose. There had to be more, if there was not more then why even bother getting up in the morning?? I became a Christian and began going to Church. It all made sense...Untill.

I began a Theology Degree at university and found that all the things I had been led to believe were not necessarily true. I found that what people believed was not based on sound history or accurate interpretation/translation. Or it could be said was based on half truths. At first this really hit me hard. Everything that I had based my life on had come to nothing, or so it seemed.

Now I am happy that life is a mystery, its makes it more fun. I still have the feelings, the sense I had when I was a child though now i know the only thing i can be certain of is that 'I am', nothing more can be known. There may be a God, there may not. Sometimes I think there is, other times I think there is not. This is ok, I am happy with this. Its an adventure, a journey. Its all fine untill...

You get an atheist telling you why there isnt a God, and they cant see that actually you dont believe in the God they dont believe in either, and that you agree with everything they say and their methodology but that for you it doenst mean that there is not a god but actually that there is. Or you get a Christian telling you stuff which you know is not true, or is based upon an interpreted truth that in reality is not 'that simple', but will they accept this? generally not! These people hurt me with there certanties, why cant people admit that they dont KNOW? that they dont have the answers, or understand how it all works. Why cant we just journey together in unknowing. With belief but not certainty.

Anyway I could go on, I am post grad now doing church studies, and all I want is to make the world a better place. I hope I can do this. It is what my life is about. And if there isnt a God, I hope I have helped a few people deal with life, in life and if there is, when I stand before him he will smile upon me. As he will us all! from those we see as good to those we see as evil. We are loved, we are all forgiven, we are all ONE. and as one we journey together.

Timeless Timeless
22-25, M
6 Responses Jun 18, 2007

This story lifts my spirit in the most hypothetical of ways, I rejoice with 5 ratings for everyone.

Putting the angst in agnostic ;) <br />
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It sounds like you have been through a very interesting journey in your personal exploration of the nature of the universe. From hell to heaven and back again, perhaps!<br />
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At any rate, I just wanted to offer this thought: that your position of affirmed agnosticism, (that you are certain that one can not be certain) is not really all that different to atheism or theism, to my eyes. You have conviction in the unknownability of God; yet as far as I can see it's the same conviction that drives both atheists and believers to try to convert you to their position? You believe that you KNOW that it is not possible to know, but that's very much the same type of belief construct as believing that one can know. To be convinced of that fr<x>amework, you have to be certain of a certain property of any deity in relation to human knowledge - know-ability, so to speak. (I imagine your knowledge of the philosophy of religion is vastly more sophisticated than mine. I put this to you in the hope you might elaborate some more?).<br />
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I do, however, feel you have misrepresented the scientific atheist position, which is where I come from, so I feel compelled to elaborate a little :) <br />
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In my understanding, atheists from this school do not claim to *know* that there is no god. It is a simple matter that the vast majority of the data, and established theory is consistent with a world that does not include deities as proposed by the prominent religions of the world. <br />
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Whilst the (non)existence of a god seems to be a non- falsifiable hypothesis, the data suggests a very high level of confidence that the scriptural religions do not portray reality. And there is no need to postulate a God otherwise, from a science based understanding of the world.<br />
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No "KNOWING" that there is no God is required.

Got to add, why R18? I see no harsh language or sexual themes. What should be R18 is every story about an unproven deity, not vice versa.

To timeless, congrats on finding the joy of a life lived in endless possibilities rather then assumed truths. Many possible futures, many possible paths- I commend your willingness to embrace religious studies and feel heartened by your own fruitful search for the truth. I write on this a lot in my blog. Science cannot answer everything; but it does a good job of providing likely choices. It’s up to the individual to seek a personal<br />
truth or truths from the accumulated knowledge.<br />
I would be interested to see an account of an atheist who was certain without a doubt that they were right about their specific ideology; or maybe not- it would be like listening to a Muslim and Christian argue about their deities…such an argument is based in emotional anecdotes; the only proof is the vague language of scriptures. <br />
Anyway, good to see someone rise above the vague happiness of faith into the glorious pleasure of questions. <br />
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To luvbugg77: I think god is so appealing because he offers an afterlife, who wouldn’t say yes to eternal peace and joy? Sad fact is, there is nothing except anecdotal evidence (Scripture) that this is true. It’s up to you wether you want to believe something that makes you feel good (Even if you suspect it may not be true). I’m sure it does help to believe that God is the reason for everything, I always thought that those who believed in it that would do all they could to question it…but that does not seem to be the case. I would be happy to search all my life, even if I only found a few ob<x>jective truths…I think it would be an insult to any hypothetical creator if I just stopped my quest for the evidence of our own amusingness! Life in a quantum universe rocks! Learning rules! Facts raise your mind to levels of comprehension you wouldn’t believe! Changing your mind and testing those facts is all part of the fun. <br />
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To mountiainman92351: I do not know what you mean by education troubling; all it does is offer agreed upon observations of the likely mechanisms that run our chaotic lives. I’m assuming that ‘it’s place’ for you is as a display of Gods greatness. Personally, the greatest display of a hypothetical god’s existence would be some observable evidence that suggests his existence. <br />
As for the sun-rise, the puppies and the cats; just because they are there, does not imply they were created by an intelligent designer. Just because we have the capability to find beauty in these things, does not imply they were created. There is no pure fact in those items existence, there are laws of physics, biology, entropy and informational exchange…those are the only facts suggested by those things.<br />
As for sciences flexible view of the universe, would you prefer that we had chosen that belief (That the earth is at the centre of the universe as the church told us) and stuck with it no questions asked? Would you rather that science stuck with one set of truths and stopped seeking new ones? I suspect your answer would be no, but get this…Science has the ability to change its mind based on observable evidence, Scientists changing their minds is actually a positive quality that has put society in our advanced position. Without people disagreeing with and questioning others; we might be stuck in the dark ages. Seems like knowledge changes depending on new information, and faith (God) sticks to one set of truths that commands you not to question them. Choose the side you would rather be on, stubborn belief, or flexible questioning . Also, consider which has more observable and recent information to support it…Science or faith? Faith: nil, science: thousands of years of scientific enquiry. <br />
So, I challenge you to provide me with proof that would convert even a Hermit in the desert. I have my eyes and heart open, I have a blog with many arguments I would enjoy your thoughts on; please show me how my current challenge is unchallengeable?

Education can be troubling , Unless you put it in it's place. look upon a rise in the early morning. For all our knowledge we cannot duplicate it. Look at a newborn puppy or kitty again we cannot do what God has done and it takes a type of intellect that I cannot fathom to ignore the pure fact of that. 500 years ago the smartest people were absolutely convinced the earth was the center of the universe, and that man could not fly.<br />
200 years ago the smartest people were equally convonced the Earth was flat. h-m-m-m seems like knowledge chances but God remains the same. Dont get me wrong, I have had my differences with God spent a whole year mad at him once. <br />
But his pure existance is unchallengable if you choose to beleive your heart and eyes. ,<br />
God Bless, yaz,<br />
Dx

I am not judging you when i say this but why do you think that you keep comming back to God? There was something planted in you even as a child. When the Spirit of the Lord em<x>beds itself in you that never leaves you. You are right about the wrong interpretations, and the wrong truths, but if they are wrong then they are lies, right? Anyway I dont have to have proof, I know that i know , gut feelings, or just hardheadedness, call it what you will , There is a God , He is the reason we take our first breath in the morning and the reason "we are" I guess in order to believe you have to have peice about it , and I do. i am glad you are comfortable with how you feel, I cant say anything about that I wish all were that way though. Without peace there is torment and one continues searching until they either die or they find what they are looking for. i am glad and greatful for that peace and can only pray that others find it too. God bless you in your search and you will be in my prayers.