Funny

I think it's funny how the late Jerry Falwell and many other fundamentalist christians see the US as being "gods country"...In the bible when Jesus goes crazy and starts breaking things at a market, I'm pretty sure it's b/c all those people were so materialistic.  Maybe I'm remembering that wrong but I know Jesus taught that people should be humble, love thy neighbor, judge not lest ye be judged, though shalt not kill, etc.  This nation and its culture represents the exact opposite of all those notions.  Not only are we a group of prideful, gluttonous, superficial beings, but we find violence to be entertaining and justify the killing of people all over the world (middle east especially) to justify our continued economic and strategic dominance.  I just don't know what kind of things go on inside a fundamentalist christian american's head.  It must be full of denial and repression and wishful thinking.  I just don't know.
ReformedAutomaton ReformedAutomaton
41-45, M
36 Responses Jun 15, 2007

Yeah I was alienated from Christianity for that very reason. It's become such a hypocritical religion, or better stated, it's been changed into something that does not resemble the original intentions. I don't believe Jesus intended people to lay at their feet and worship him. Any god that wanted people to lay down and worship him would be a real *******. I think god would want you to live your life, and as you said, not be materialistic but be altruistic and loving. He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the light.". In this I believe that he meant to be like him, to emulate how he was, not to worship and bow down to him.

Yeah I was alienated from Christianity for that very reason. It's become such a hypocritical religion, or better stated, it's been changed into something that does not resemble the original intentions. I don't believe Jesus intended people to lay at their feet and worship him. Any god that wanted people to lay down and worship him would be a real *******. I think god would want you to live your life, and as you said, not be materialistic but be altruistic and loving. He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the light.". In this I believe that he meant to be like him, to emulate how he was, not to worship and bow down to him.

That's hilarious Tumblin....I knew a little about Larry Flynt standing up to the govt but I hadn't heard about his idea of a **** bailout. That is f#cking hilarious!

That's hilarious Tumblin....I knew a little about Larry Flynt standing up to the govt but I hadn't heard about his idea of a **** bailout. That is f#cking hilarious!

by the way, I like the way Larry Flynt put Falwell in his place. As crazy as he can be, I kind of admire him, he built his **** business from scratch and he continues to stand up to the government......I love his latest request for the federal government to bail out the **** industry because americans are too depressed to have sex. If anything he entertains and makes you see how ridiculous things can be...

the same things that go on in a Jehovah Witness head......only half kidding, you are right, it makes no sense but it is not a popular opinion to say this....I often get reemed because of my unpopular opinions, but few people understand the true meaning of Christianity. Jesus said give away everything you have and follow me..........how many people do you know would abandon their flat screen tvs, suvs, and all the other materialistic things that define them. Thanks for the story Reformed....you never disappoint!

I agree completely that individuals can make all the difference in the world. I do not think god has favorite nations though. Nations are a human creation and a rather arbitrary one at that. The western countries carved up Africa during the colonialization period and many other places in the world creating these "nations" which were formerly not nations at all...the people in these places have such diverse cultures and differing viewpoints that they have a hard time ever finding anything close to concensus.<br />
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So if god has compassion for America cause it has some good people, he/she/it would feel that way about all nations. There's no nation in the world that has all bad people nor all good.

It is true that God often judges nations as a whole…but it is also true that he has spared diffferent nations because of His love for a small handful of individuals that lived in the country.<br />
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America has its flaws, and it is full of ignorant idiots. There is stupidity, and crime, and laziness…..<br />
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However….. <br />
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There are also many wonderful things about America.<br />
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Many people here are kind and intelligent. Most people have good hearts, and there are many Americans praying and working towards a better country. <br />
Things aren’t always as the media portrays them.<br />
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The responsibility though, always falls on the hands of the individual…one person can change the world…<br />
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...they must be the change they wish to see in the world.

Haha Tricz, you are so right....well kinda...fundamentalists make up a pretty small percentage of the world but they do make a big splash and influence a lot of people. It's the influence and conditioning they provide that worries me, not their numbers.

Well, I'm not really sympathetic to the evangelicals, but the fundamental Muhammadans are not any better. So, really, God hates the world. <br />
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...except Switzerland, He finds them just so-so.

I lived in Lubbock for 3 years so I know how west Texas can be. San Antonio is definitely a better place to live. Austin rules though!! LOL

lets be thankful i moved back...its sucks over there.

i live in texas too, one of the worst cities i've ever lived in was midland/odessa. that is the sh-ttiest place to live filled with almost nothing but bible hugging racists. i only lasted 3 months in that place....i had to leave.<br />
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now i live in san antonio, not far from my hometown of corpus christi. san antonio kicks butt. i just found out today the we rank number 11 in the nation for high economical success. and luckily they are going to put most of our city taxes this year towards education. so far, so good

Yeah I totally agree. If there is a god I think hate would not be in it's vocabulary. I am the creator of this group so I came up with the title, but I have had second thoughts, maybe God Worries About the USA would be more appropriate. I know what you mean about trying to not be a living double standard. At least you are trying, just be yourself and let everyone else worry about what they think of you. All that matters is what you think of you, that you can live with yourself and be happy, which will in turn make those around you happy. I live in Texas too so I know what you mean about judgement, it is so shallow here in some areas. Austin is not so bad but elsewhere I would be feeling very judged all the time.

I couldn't agree more... I try so hard to not be judgemental about people, because that would make me a hypocrite in and of itself (since I don't like to be judged myself), but I see so many double-standards...<br />
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I have a real issue with how much to put up with and how much to battle back at the unfair double-standards around me (and those that are applied to me)... for example, I am a fairly good-looking woman. I won't go into specifics because that is not what this forum is for, but on one hand I am told by Victoria's to embrace my inner runway model and be a vixen everywhere I go...but if I embrace my inner vixen and actually let it show outside the walls of my home in any way at all (like through my naturally flirty personality), I am ridiculed and spoken badly of...especially in Tx... I am not sure God hates the USA as the thread originally started out with, but I am fairly certain that He's looking down on all of us, shaking his head, and saying "kids, kids, kids..when will you learn???"

No, you don't sound paranoid at all. I think you see so much hypocrisy because there is so much of it out there. There are mixed messages coming from everywhere in our culture. Sex is treated as something to be respected and feared, while simultaneously our culture espouses the "stud" and makes light of sex, advertises it, etc. All while people cry out about teen sex and pregnancy. Same thing with drugs, our culture says drugs are bad but then you watch "That 70's Show" and drugs are a funny, light-hearted subject. I think this produces a lot of people with dualistic (hypocritical) ways of thinking. I think all people are hypocrites to some degree, it's just about recognizing that in yourself and attempting to correct or change your own contradictory ways. Those that believe they are never hypocritical are the biggest hypocrites of all.

wow...it took me 30 minutes to read all of the posts! I generally consider myself a fairly intelligent person, but there were a few times I started to get lost in the theorism! :) It was a very fascinating read...I thoroughly enjoyed it.<br />
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I cannot speak for any other Christian on the planet; I can only speak for myself. I see uber-consumption and waste all around me, especially at this time of year, and I must admit it does leave me feeling a little cynical. I feel like we as a country could do so much more to care for each other and for our planet. <br />
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With that said, one of the all-to-human qualities we have each been blessed with by God is the freedom to make our own choices, for better or for worse. Oftentimes, the result of our personal choices have an adverse effect on ourselves, or on someone else. That is the nature of "free will." From what I have seen, free will tends to result in people doing very selfish things, i.e. the aforementioned uber-consumption and waste. Sadly, I have also seen free will result in plenty of hypocracy both inside and outside any church I have been involved with...It really hasn't mattered where I have been or what I have been involved with, the hypocracy is everywhere... (does that sound a little paranoid? )<br />
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As a Christian, I do not profess to be right, nor do I profess to be perfect. I usually am very careful to tell people I am a "work in progress"... and some of my other "experiences" listed on EP scream "I have failed miserably as a Christian". I simply try to do my best every day, and I feel I am fully reliant on God's infinite grace to forgive me for all of my human shortcomings. Without the hope of grace to forgive where I have fallen short of being who I should be, I have no hope at all.<br />
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that's just my two bits... :) Take it or leave it... :)

Well they probably won't find out till they die but really that may be the funniest time for it to happen.

They hide their hatred, wastefulness, and hypocrisy, behind Jesus Christ. They discuss the war as if it were a football game, and go ballistic if a breast is exposed, or a mother nurses her baby in public. I believe Jesus and John the baptist refered to them as a brood of vipers. They are going to be so shocked when they find out that they have been the very worst of Antichrists.

You are most certainly correct that with what the US produces monetarily, we could be a very bountiful society where everyone lives comfortably. I mostly blame our problems of decadence on the system of capitalism. It turns people into greedy self-serving animals. And our government and media fully support our over-consumption as it keeps the system working in their favor, keeps the rich rich and the poor poor, and the middle class stuck like Chuck....but hey everybody's happy right as long as they have their (insert latest gadget that is a created need, not a real necessity i.e. computers, cell phones, Ipods, etc)

as for your original post reformedautomation, i dont believe in god. but i too remember being taught that jesus was a humble man and lived a simple life. if i were a believer, i would agree that our nation is quite the opposite of this. we seem to be a corrupt country motivated by greed. i'm not proposing we throw all of our material possesions, technologies, and intelligence out the window. but i feel we should be more aware of the effects our technologies have on other countries as well as its effects on our own environment. and as for our countrys greed, we all have to work together on that one [religious or not]. but how can we when so many keep buying suvs, build elaborate houses, and buy countless needless possesions. just think how many more people we could help if we weren't so busy helping ourselves.

missedtheboat, i didnt leave my comment in any sense of being considered serious. i just found those 2 statements funny....made me laugh. i thought it would be a humorous post to such a debate. <br />
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but i must add that you stated in your reply to me --'This does not mean that the Bible has a problem: this means man has a problem.'<br />
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yet the bible was a book written by man.....hmmmm.

Go ahead, I don't wish to censor anyone. I'd just prefer that people not leave rude comments on my own story.

Smebro chose to get personal and attack me and he was a hypocrite in the way he did it. Attacking me for not reading your material and then made it obvious he didn't read and understand mine (the Ipod/cell phone thing). So if he posts again on this story it will be deleted.

Yeah Smebro I would suggest moving your conversation on to another arena. The things you said in your last post are contradictory, laughable (I use my cell phone not an Ipod for music ROFLMAO), and not worth retort.

wow, i took 20 minutes to read this. and my comment is going to be so short compared to your alls. i'm not going to claim to know much of the bible, all i wanted to say was.....<br />
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smebro stated- 'No matter who you are, if you subscribe to Christianity, you will construct your own mental version of what Christianity is…and you will share this personal version with others, swap portions of your own personal adaptations.'<br />
that is very very true<br />
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missed the boat stated- 'Forgive me if I sound presumptuous in saying this, but I do not believe that you have completely accurate understanding of the Scriptures or of Jesus'<br />
of course not, no one does....thats the problem with the silly book. everyone wants to live by it, but no one really knows its true meanings or if its even a true story.<br />
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thats all i wanted to say

Missedtheboat;<br />
I’m copying this conversation and proposing we move it elsewhere. The host is not grateful for our lively dinner discussion.<br />
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That’s a common argument, that the evidence of creation is all around us but we choose to ignore it. <br />
Obviously this could not be the case in my situation. I am constantly searching for new scientific information, I have my eyes wide open and I am trying to hear what the universe has to say… it’s some pretty amazing stuff. I think the biggest problems with the proposition that the evidence is in the creation is that 1) There is no clear indication in the world or universe which God or Deities we should be thanking for it all. And 2) I just don’t see the universe as proof of a higher intelligence with specific wishes for this one species. At the most I see the universe as proof of simplistic beginnings, which intuitively supports the big-bang theory. Evolution is the process in which small things have become big and complicated, it tells me that from almost nothing, chaos can create order and beauty. The tiniest interaction can set of a chaotic order, just like our world seems to be in today… just like the universe is. <br />
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This is in line with the finer details of the big-bang theory; that in the beginning matter was almost completely evenly distributed, but the most minute differences in the mass of that original matter started the subtle but snowballing interactions between the particles. Areas where it was denser drew more matter in with the slightest gravitational pull, and after some time (Time really had no meaning in primordial universe) the chaotic factors led to what we see in space today. So many complex interactions, we are only scratching the surface of what’s out there.<br />
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So to sum that paragraph up; the universe, from what I can see, is full of simple things becoming beautiful and seemingly ordered things. I can use the same ‘eyes open and listening’ logic you speak of to assume that science is right, and the universe began without an overly complicated deity. <br />
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I cannot find any intuitive way to suppose that it was an intelligence that set things rolling, it does not float on top of the solid science I am interested in. <br />
You’ll have to elaborate on the other quote, I don’t get it.<br />
We are impressive, but our essays are unappreciated <br />
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Reformed Automaton:<br />
Perhaps you should have read a few more posts before you commented. The fact we are now civilly discussing this shows that we are not fundamentalists, of course you are entitled to that opinion. <br />
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Smebro is not saying ‘you are not a Christian unless you believe every word, that you can't pick and choose.’ And you obviously are not aware of my own shifting philosophies. I rarely subscribe to one idea alone, I have prefer to be aware of many alternate arguments that are the most likely explanations. From these I can pick favourites and make my own decisions. I respect the most people who are flexible in their thinking, rigidity of thought is something I fear, there can never be one answer, only many from different points of view. Soooooo…you don’t need to disagree with that. <br />
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I want to draw attention to this comment <br />
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“I know plenty of Christians who accept evolutionary theory cause, umm, how could you not unless you just wish to deny reality. But to me, if there is a god, nothing speaks to the possibilities of god's potential existence than the mind boggling ways of evolution and the broadness and apparent infinity of the universe.”<br />
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That is what I believe many do ; Deny reality. I also wonder how they could possibly subscribe wholeheartedly to the theory that life began 6 or so thousand years ago. Unless God was actually trying to send people to hell by misleading everyone with the whole fossil record and Dna stuff. I do not believe that evolutions mysteries or the vastness of the universe suggests anything of an intelligent entity that hides. I cannot wrap my mind around how these things could be so easily linked. Mystery does not equal Deity, it equals areas for further exploration and indicates new knowledge to be found. <br />
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Yes you’re right that we are still fighting wars, for petty reasons. Sad isn’t it? But where does the bible come into it? The bible actually condones the deaths of those who do not believe the same, hardly a positive ideal. I could bring out a children’s book with a better anti-war message. <br />
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By the way, I don’t have an Ipod, I listen to music on my Cell Phone. That’s a really cheesy assumption to make, only useful in furthering your vision of me as a self-centred prat.<br />
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I do not want to argue this because your own argument appears be more emotive then constructive. You seem to be trying to insult me when you imply that I am shutting myself off from your personal definition of reality. I don’t know what to say to such a baseless assumption. I must assume you have personal reasons to dislike me. I think I’ll just ignore that last part, I do not need to prove my involvement in reality with you. But perhaps in future you might refrain from petty personal attacks.

I wasn't able to read all of these posts but both you guys are sounding like fundamentalists. Although I am not a christian, I do believe that it is okay for people to formulate their own ideas, opinions, and to pick and choose what to believe. And especially how to interpret what you read. Fundamentalists are those that say you must believe every word and take everything literally. Smebro is saying you are not a christian unless you believe every word, that you can't pick and choose. In that I disagree. I know plenty of christians who accept evolutionary theory cause, umm, how could you not unless you just wish to deny reality. But to me, if there is a god, nothing speaks to the possibilities of god's potential existence than the mind boggling ways of evolution and the broadness and apparent infinity of the universe. <br />
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And I also disagree with the statement that old texts such as the bible are archaic and have no relevance today since we've "moved on" to a higher plane of thought and morality. I think nothing could be further from the truth. Other than technology, this world today is behind the ancient world in terms of people being in touch with themselves and the world around them. We are fighting grotesque ideological wars over fundamentalist positions, land, and resources such as oil. How have we moved on to anything greater? I don't see it. I see man as being regressive much more than progressive. All the while that you're sitting at your computer and using your Ipod and feeling like you're some super-evolved entity, you are also cutting yourself off from the world around you, which is reality.

Not at all, I am thoroughly enjoying this exchange. At first I was being short-tempered (This morning I received a lovely email in which it was announced that I should soon suffer for my ignorance to Gods will, thanks again to that person, who will probably not read this story) which does happen sometimes, but I am always happy to speak with one as eloquent as you. <br />
I do not have an understanding of the bible as you do, but I do have my own understanding. Perhaps it is not ‘full’ but in the sense of the word as you use it I guess you are probably talking about understanding it as a form of truth. <br />
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I don’t really have to time elaborate too much in response. My work-day is done and I may not come online again till tomorrow, but I will throw this out there.<br />
Those that do not believe in something are never responsible to prove non-existence. The onus falls on those making the bold claim; you are the one who believes parts of the bible should be taken literally, I am the one who gives the bible as much credit as the Koran. In no way is it a non-believers duty to prove the non-existence of things (e4speically things said non-believer does not believe in) . it is always the dsuty of the person making the claim to prove it’s validity.<br />
You must see where I am going with this. A lack of evidence against something is worth almost nothing (Whether it exists or not) it is the evidence for something that counts. In this case I feel it is grossly lacking.<br />
G’night.

Just as you have formed a mental version of the bible, I have formed my own. Mine is based on the Anglican teachings I had drummed into me over 7 years at boarding school. I did work out the number of hours I have spent in chapel and it comes a large figure (Another story I do not feel like tracking down, 7 years of chapel three times a week), so I do have a significant background and familiarity with the bible. Not to say that my version is any more accurate, I'm just giving a background.<br />
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When I consider all that we were told as true, the most outrageous claims, I am not at all compelled to form my own truths. It seems perfectly and undeniably clear to me that the bible is as good to live by as any other ancient text. It is simply a collection of stories from older faiths, all originating in the worship of the sun. Basically, it is obviously not a literal document, to the extent where it is very probable that none of what it claims actually happened. How could there have been plagues of locusts and mass death in Egypt when such events are not recorded by any of the ancient cultures? <br />
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It becomes a game of picking and choosing, I'll take that and reject that, I'll agree with that and disagree with that. I will accept the bible is not perfect, but only so far as to prove it is perfect. These are simply mind games and word games, there can be no winner when one side believes a totally inaccurate text is all the evidence needed. It makes no sense to argue scripture with an atheist, it means very little except to indicate where your truths lie. It is not virtuous to base beliefs on a book you admit is flawed, even less to make your own truths from that book without references to reality. <br />
I don’t think I can make it any clearer how little the bible means to me, it is no more then a source of confusion for the masses, it is an unnecessary evil. The reason I speak of moral lessons when I mention the bible is because that is the only redeeming quality I can find with that book. And it’s a lame quality, considering the rather archaic morals in that book. <br />
Stone people who blaspheme, stone adulterers, and wipe out those that do not agree with you.<br />
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How can you cling to such wicked lessons? It can only be because you reconcile these ideas with your own, and you guess that you are able to interpret it in a way that others have never done, or did not do originally. <br />
I will say that if God is real, he has done a very crappy job of getting word around. The bible is a terrible book, it is repulsive in the stories it tells of bigotry and small-minded morality. Either the translators did a terrible job (In which case the power of the omnipotent being is seriously in question) or your deity is a right bastard. <br />
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Surely if he is the all power-full all mighty god that some parts of the bible say he is, he would be witty enough to confirm his existence to us all in one way or another that would be quiet simple and indisputable. Of course he won’t do that, and you know why I think as such.<br />
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I want to finish and be perfectly clear on my view. I do not believe in an intelligent being that rules/runs/created the universe . I do not factor this into any of my accepted models of reality.<br />
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Believe me, I am up to scratch on the Jesus story and all its inconsistencies (God builds the universe, makes a mistake in the first run despite his omnipotence, and so some time after wiping out the first run he has his son be born, his son who is also himself, and he has his son teach little lessons for a few years before he has himself/son killed so that he can clear a debt his created creatures owed to himself.)And I find nothing in the bible to indicate firstly; that Jesus was real to begin with, or secondly; that I should owe him anything. Very simply because I do not believe in the literal bible, I do not believe that any historical Jesus character was the son of a deity. I do not need evidence to prove my point of view, because nothing changes by living in the world as it is. You, on the other hand, have your evidence… in an old book… and that is all you need. <br />
For me; mankind’s redemption is the knowledge that has us living our fairly comfortable lives (And getting better).

Judges nations, as in group punishment? Of course the children deserve to suffer for their parents, that makes sense right? Wrong.<br />
I mean what I say. It is not okay to point the finger at others and claim that they are twisting and morphing the words you live by. But you are guilty of exactly the same thing. <br />
It is unavoidable that you should need to change what that ancient text says to fit in with your world-view. The reason being that societies morals have progressed since those dark days, we are enlightened beyond the bible’s petty moral lessons. If there ever was a positive message to be found in the bible, it can be found elsewhere and be better understood these days. Yet still we have people that pick and choose what they do and don’t agree with/believe in. Most of who have very little knowledge of what they are subscribing. No matter who you are, if you subscribe to Christianity, you will construct your own mental version of what Christianity is…and you will share this personal version with others, swap portions of your own personal adaptations. An example where you say; <br />
‘Jesus' point with this was more concerning idolatry and the entire "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to heaven" thing.<br />
You are picking and choosing, you are making personal assumptions as to what some parts meant, and dismissing others because they do not make sense to your modern sensibilities. How can you be Christian according to some parts of the bible and not others? <br />
It all ties in with the overwhelming confusion that is religion and the faithful. These great chasms of logic should be enough for most people to think through and dismiss their faith for what it is.

It also says rather clearly that everyone who believes in (The Christian) God should give up all their belongings, give up EVERYTHING, if they want to get into heaven. Anything less is not up-to scratch in Gods eyes.<br />
So Christians... Have you given up your belongings yet? Or have you adapted the bible in your mind to make it suit what you’re comfortable with?

Thanks billy, you are definitely correct in that all religions have issues with practicing what they preach. I'm just more bothered by the Christians b/c they seem to look down on the rest of the world as sinners. They think they are god looking down on the rest of us and judging us (ex. saying New Orleans deserved Katrina b/c of their "sin")

I'm with you there. Religion in general has some serious problems in terms of "practicing what they preach" I doubt Mohammed would be in favor of suicide bombings. The Christian Right is one of the scariest groups of people in our nations history.

You got that right...in reading what I wrote again I think I was generalizing about Americans...I think as a society we are those ways but there are many individuals who are not...I didn't mean to categorize "everybody" in such a way.

i'm not sure what their heads are full of either but i surely wouldn't imagine it being comprised of much grey matter!