What Is Agnosticism?

Ultimately, I would suggest we are all agnostics. Even those true believers have simply chosen to believe something. Even if it is through some type of metaphysical experience, the experience is purely subjective and they have used their subjective experience to form a belief but it is still a choice to believe, not empirical evidence. In fact, it is likely impossible to obtain any empirical date on this subject.

So we are all left with the choice of choosing to believe in God, acknowledging we don't know, or choosing to not believe in God.

BTW, I consider myself a Christian Agnostic so you can see what choice I have made and I find that it works for me.

You can only be sure of that when you are God Himself.

Thanks, mom.

Just working on definitions to help people associate a definition for what they are feeling or thinking.

Like my mentor RetiredFather says - first step in solving a problem is putting a name on it. Second part is giving the name a definition to identify it.



Not that the above defined is a problem, however.



Martin - PSI

RetiredFather - I hope you dont mind me sharing my definition of agnosticism. Its one step further than yours.



I would define agnosticism as "sitting on the fence" with the god debate. You wont say there is a god but you wont say that there is not a god. So you live your life as best as you can and try to be the best person you can. I was here for several years before I became atheist.



I also think this is a great forum for people who feel conflicted but dont want to get involved in the theist/atheist conflict. So kudos.

Onward...



Martin - PSI

I like the idea that it is ok, even healthy, to admit that we don't know and so we allow for possibility. As for faith, it helps make sense of the universe and gives a cosmology with a certain morality attached to it. Whether this is an ancient Near Eastern tribal deity or a flying serpent demanding a flowery sacrifice or even a fideistic devotion to reason. These things give us something larger than ourselves to trust in, a universal constant if you will.



Admission of that need is what I think drives us to faith because the universe is a huge place and we are incapable, at this time, of understanding everything about it. I like the fact that most probably no one can legitimately claim ownership of incontrovertible universal truth because no one can prove it. it's like a Schrödinger's Cat of faith. We are all right and all wrong because none of us can open the box and look inside to confirm if it is alive or dead. As strange as it seems, I take a lot of comfort in that.

That's why Martin posted this Zeb, to get a feel for why people believe what they do, a better understanding of what drives their beliefs.



And it was probably just a typo that should have read God(s).



I don't think he was insinuating that religion should only be only about monotheistic religions.



And I agree with your post, we are a weak and primitive race when it really comes down to it.



And I think that there has always been a search for answers and enlightenment in the form of a doctrine of sorts that helps to explain things and make us feel a little more comfortable about the unknown.

which god? there have been thousands and thousands of gods, for which millions of ppl throughout history have fought for, died for, and killed for. but if your asking if any one of those gods actually exists, the answer is, we cant know. its impossible. anyone who says they know, is a liar or a fool. but, we need to have something to believe in, we are a weak and primitive race. we cling to the idea that something exists beyond this life. a place where bad ppl get punished and good ppl get rewarded. our simple monkey brains must cling to that hope. its our nature.

Love you Mimi! :-)

: )

Thank you Martin, I appreciate the response, it's nice to feel safe speaking my mind about the subject without being confronted by people on either 'side'. I like to feel I'm just in the middle, but I also don't feel that I would ever WANT to know exactly what is out there, it seems then that there would be less to wonder and less of a desire to learn, I guess I thrive on constantly learning, exploring and wondering about the mystery of life. And by 'know', I mean theoretically if any of it could be completely explained and proven, and so far, I don't see proof for either side.



And Pedro, I hope you don't think that I too was insinuating that Mimi was up for 'debate', I just know and trust her as a friend, and know that she has beliefs and a strong faith in God that may help you.

Thanks Martin. As you said, it is such a personal choice.

Pedro: I hope you don't feel I was trying to initiate a debate. I wouldn't do that

The key to your answer is "Because these people said"

That is the problem with many people who struggle of religion.



In my humble opinion - belief in a religion is a very personal choice. How you feel about God should be defined by what you feel in your heart. That is where GOd lives, for me.



If you are questioning the existance of God than you are agnostic.



Do not listen to others (Myself included) Do what you feel is right.



I remember one of retiredfather's old jokes about religion;

A person does not go to church because they do not know I Christian or

A person does not go to church because they know a Christian.



Be well.



Live well.



All is well.

@ IVotedForPedro; I'm sorry you're feeling so conflicted, hopefully you can find some people or information that is non-confrontational to help you through this time, Mimi is a good person, and I trust her and Martin seems like a well intentioned, intelligent person, and would probably fit the bill for that. best wishes to you.



@Martin, just a question about myself. I read another post you said about atheism being the absence of belief in God(s). Why is there such a stigma surrounded by this word? For a long time I thought of myself as an agnostic, simply because I didn't think I was trying to say for sure there was no God(s), I just don't believe personally that there is, and was never ready to put a for sure stamp on things. I still have some theories kicking around in my head about the human conciousness as a whole(all of it) and that possibly being a link to the how ancient Gods and Goddesses were 'conceived'(that and societies desire to have answers to the unknown), but then again, like I said, they are just stray ideas that have been in my head for years, and never researched or looked into. I will definitely not follow a religion though, I just can't subscribe to the idea that a select group of people are the only ones who get it(life) right and I've never been good at the whole blind faith thing. Because these people said it was so, it is, so follow us, and all will be well. Anyhow, guess according to terminology I'm an atheist, which is fine by me I suppose.

Pedro-

I'll send a private message to you.

Martin.

Thank Pedro. I was just wondering. I hope you find peace in this.

People's faiths often disolve not because of experiences with God, but often negative experiences with the human race.

Write me if you want. Maybe I can help.

I won't try to convince you of anything.

Maybe I can help define your concerns.



Martin - Psychology of Religion - Summer Intern - retiredfather's group.

Hi Pedro, are you feeling that you are unsure there is a God or are you feeling that He isn't listening to you?