Judge Not...

OK this is a rant, and I hope it inspires beautiful conversation...

I'm tired of those among this group who post something trying to convince people NOT to have an affair because of how "wrong" it is.  They don't BELONG in this group and are only further confusing people who are already in a difficult emotional state.  Let me explain further...I can not STAND people who think they know everything about relationships and the experiences they bring.  I can ASSURE you that no matter WHAT your experience is or was, it differs in at least some major way from the person you are trying to persuade.

What I would like to do, on the other hand, is ENCOURAGE people.  Not necessarily to cheat, but to make their OWN decisions...based on their OWN feelings, passions, and desires.  You cannot honestly say that every person is the same.  We are all unique, and that includes not only our own personal experiences, but also our own value systems and judgments.  What one person may see as wrong can be very right, even necessary, for someone else.  People have affairs for more reasons than you can conceive, including because they are emotionally starved or tormented by their partner.  Others cheat because they are addicted to sex and don't get enough at home.  It's not necessarily a reason to leave a good relationship, but maybe it actually CAN'T be fixed in the home.  Some people cheat because they need the thrill of getting caught doing something wrong.  I'm not saying any of the reasons are right or wrong, because there is NO SUCH THING.  It might be right for them, but wrong for me.  Who can say, except the person making the decision.

Right and wrong are mere concepts...what we in society want to believe are polar ideals, placed in a stationary manner around some imaginary line that denotes "THIS is right and THAT is wrong."  What the hell does that mean anyway?  The only thing that exists is a CHOICE...DO or DO NOT.  What that means to an individual is directly determined by 1) the choice they make, one way or the other; and 2) how that affects the person looking back at them from the mirror the next day.  The only way to judge an action's correctness is by that person's estimation of the value of what they have done.  For some, an affair will be wrong, a terrible, awful mistake.  For others, it could be the gateway to a better life, a way out of a bad relationship, a way to find attention that wasn't there before.   Regardless, it is NOT the same for every person, and it CERTAINLY isn't what you claim to know it will be.

Do us all a favor, hypocrites, and stop judging that which you do not understand.  You could no sooner speak to know my mind or anyone else's, than an ant could claim to understand God.  People and their experiences are different with each new choice, and THAT is the beauty of the free will we have, and the miracle of life we have been given.

This is a project in human EXPERIENCE.  For those who would deny themselves certain experiences, feel free to exercise that choice.  But you can all stop right there, and spare the rest of us your petty opinions and condemnations, the dried up dogma of a stagnant society whose only goal is to keep individuals from self-actualization and true greatness.  The beauty of life is in choice...the choice to get out of bed, the choice to select a partner, the choice to have sex, the choice to love, the choice to hate, the choice to LIVE, every day...

Whatever we choose, is ours to decide.  Let those among you WITHOUT sin, be the first to condemn.

flirtswithdisaster flirtswithdisaster
26-30, M
25 Responses Aug 20, 2007

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I love this post!

rite on !! so many of us in the same boat !!

I agree with everything your saying. No one can criticize a situation before really knowing what's going on. Im having an affair and i couldn't be happier...i know my husband is too involved in his career to notice or even care. I know the situation isn't idealistic but it is how it is and i've chosen to live like this. If anyone judges me thats their issue!! ill live my life as i like!

Thanks for the add! Yes I do agree- it comes from many places, and love is not always the main consideration from either half, although it can be. Anyway, I appreciate the sentiment, and I am totally adding you as a friend.

your right. nobody has the right to judge you. we really don't even know you. it is just an online relationship. everybody has their own opinions and what used to be then is not always what is happening now. times are changing and all that highschool sweetheart, been together with this person 57 years is nice, but it is not so realistic. whatever you do always be true to yourself, go with your gut feeling, and listen to your heart.

I think it's funny that people are still looking to judge, when it's been made clear that it isn't their place. People want to play the idealist, and imagine that there isn't anything more important than honesty to one's partner. Well, I think honesty with yourself and your impulses is more important, and that's why I feel the way I do. Anyone who claims to know what is right and wrong in all situations is obviously not honest with his or herself, and I can guarantee you that they have lied about something in their life, so it's quite hypocritical to come down so hard on people they don't know for actions they have not even tried to understand.

hey luvitruff73? were you commenting on what i said?

Amen!<br />
after this read I almost have nothing else to say.... except thank God this site has a few intelligent people with brains!

suzer, we never said that we didn't think or know it was wrong. but don't judge people unless you know the whole story. some people go outside their relationship for emotional or physical love because of things lacking in their relationship or other possible issues. there are many reasons why people have affairs and it's not fair for you to judge people unless you know EXACTLY what's going on. thanks for you input in this forum but FYI. THIS FORUM IS FOR PEOPLE WHO "WANT TO HAVE AN AFFAIR" not for people who are AGAINST it.

I think this is disgusting. An affair to me is basically being dishonest. Would you say that you like dishonest people? When I go into a relationship, there are several factors that are involved. Trust is a big issue. If you don't have a problem screwing around, then why hide the fact? Probably because you know it is wrong. At any emotional level, the longer you are with someone it is understood that you two are together. If you both agree that is not the case, that it's OK to screw around it's one thing. Otherwise get some balls and let the other person in the relationship know what's going on...and save them some heartache later. If it's not a big deal, then why not be honest about it?

good for you flyhawk. i admire people who make their own decisions and don't let the mindset of our society dictate what they do. if only everyone were as smart as the three of us (flyhawk, flirtswithdisaster and myself) and would let people make their own decisions without judgement or criticism, but alas, the world is not like that. if it were, we would all be surrounded by rainbows and sunshine. lol

Flirtswithdisaster and Yana1, I am enjoying our discussion. Talking it out does help some. The depth of this conversation and honest advice area refreshing. When it comes to my conscience, I am not feeling guilty about being intimate with another woman, but I sincerely do not want to have my wife feel betrayed if she were to find out. As you said Flirtswithdisaster, the choices are challenging. Yet, philosophically I feel strong feelings that part of my life would not be complete if I did not explore these somewhat dangerous amorous feelings. The risk may be worth it, though I have not yet chosen to act because my limitations for such action are quite stringent.

wow. i completely agree with everything you've said flirtswithdisaster. although i have never actually had a PHYSICAL affair i have had a few 'online' affairs. i'm not sure exactly why i do it but i think it's because i feel like i've missed out. i'm 23, am married and have a baby now. it scares me to think that i never had the chance to experience the 'dating' scene and that i probably never will. i've been with my man since i was 17 years old and never really dated anyone before him. i guess i'm just looking for a little excitment. i dont take things very far in these online "affairs" only because of my little baby. i dont want to hurt him in any way. i guess i need to stop this whole thing because i don't wany my husband to find out and have this cause any problems in our marriage. it's just really really hard. it's like an addiction for me. :O( i will try....

Sometimes talking about it is enough to get some of that impulse to go away. It's certainly something I understand. Passion is a complex thing. Unfortunately, society has forced us to tie sex with emotion, when biologically speaking, we were not always this way. Given your wife's reaction, I would refrain from bringing up the subject with her again. <br />
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You are confronted with a decision, then. Either learn to cope with these urges on your own and either just live with them or suppress them, or find a way to act on them. Whatever you do, consider how you will feel down the line, however, because some actions cannot be taken back and you never want to find yourself in a bad situation you could have prevented if you stopped and thought about what you were doing. <br />
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It becomes a question of conscience, and of decision...what you're willing to live with, what you're willing to live without, and how you see yourself deep down, the you that's down where no one else can see. That's the person you have to ask.

In response to BrutMystic (I am a little new to this forum and am not sure that this will post where I want it too). <br />
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Regarding honest, I believe that honest anyone in relationship is very important. However, I have a quandary. What if I have brought up the subject about sexual freedom with my wife early in our relationship, but she became very threatened and did not want to talk about it. <br />
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I love my wife, but our sharing on this subject does not seem possible. This is one of the reasons that I am in this forum. It is refreshing to be able to talk openly about this subject.

Flirts with Disaster, I had much agreement with your challenging and creative approach to this subject. <br />
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As an adventurer into the meaning of relationships, I have often wondered about the whole concept of "cheating". If so many people want to be with more than one person for romance and intimacy, why is it called cheating. Perhaps because "rules" have been created to protect children and families from disolution. But what about those that no longer have children at home or those who simply want to explore the deepening dimentions of love. There are some that can thrive on having loving relationships with several people.<br />
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Of course, the challenge involves many of the darker energies such as jealousy, possessiveness, and greed. <br />
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I know that I have had the capacity to be "in love" with more than one person at a time. The only limiting concern involves having adequate and qality time with each. <br />
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I also realize that fantasy can be different than reality when people are involved. However, I still want to explore the possibilities with minimal hurt to all involved.<br />
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Flyhawk

Hey flirts, i totally agree with everything you said

I think it's interesting that we so quickly disregard the fact that I said, even in the story, that I wasn't encouraging people to cheat. I was just saying they might have reasons for doing so. Yes, in another post I DID say that it may be possible to have NO good reason. That does not mean I think it is right to do it for no reason, however, I would not condemn someone for doing so, being that I can never fully understand anyone's motivations but my own.<br />
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Yes, you can provide input on other people's decisions, yes you can feel that there are things that are right and wrong...do it till you're blue in the face for all I care, but what you can't do is make your own miserable experiences the basis by which you tell someone else to act. I seem to remember also saying in my story that for some people, cheating will turn out to be a terrible MISTAKE...but for some reason I'm taking all the flak for being its advocate. You can't pick and choose the things that make you angry about my postings if you're going to ignore the context...sine qua non.<br />
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Listen, as I've said before, I don't really care at all what anyone thinks of the things I've done. What I can make peace with, I have, and as for the rest, it's up to me to decide how much weight to put on my soul. I believe I've commented in another posting somewhere that children alter the situation considerably, because they are innocent bystanders to the actions of their parents. Taking that into consideration is, I feel, still important, even to the most selfish of us, because once you've decided to have a child, your life can no longer belong fully to you. So your point about children is well taken, but moot.<br />
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People should be free to make the same mistakes you have, and also to learn different lessons from the same behavior.<br />
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Also, it's "hypocrite"...for those who speak out on bad behavior and then deliberately make themselves into a covetous and flirtatious online personality in the form of wife and mother. But like I've always said...who am I to judge?

HM ~ “hey kettle this is the pot…” contradiction seems to run both ways<br />
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Disaster ~ GOOD FOR YOU!<br />
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(had a huge post for this but life’s too short… pick and choose your battles)

Not everyone who cheats wants to just sleep around, sometimes it's an accident or spur of the moment thing...like I said, you can't generalize on an experience that comes from so many different places. If there was only one reason for it, I'm sure it would be a far less common experience.

I totally agree it is not always wrong to cheat. Yeah maybe you shouldn't go just looking around to get some extra something or see someone hot and wanna screw, but if you are not happy with your partner and they don't wanna work things out then do as you please. No one understands a person better than themselves so it is wise to make your own decision and not take advice from someone else. Yes it is really wrong to cheat on a spouse if married and most people say it is morally wrong to cheat at all and yes nobody wants to break anyone's heart and make them feel bad, but people need to do whatever it takes for themselves to be happy and what feels right to them. It is hard to seek advice and take it from others when nobody really knows better what you are going through than you. Everybody has a right to do what they want. The only way in my opinion that cheating is wrong is if somebody is a "pla<x>yer" or to cheat on their wife or girlfriend when she is pregnant and also get involved with another woman and get her knocked up. So YES you make a very valid point and are a very smart guy.

I think that honesty is paramount. Why not just say to your partner, "I want to **** around"...have an open relationship...it is just the sneakiness, putting someone else at risk. If people desire a situation where they can have sexual freedom, then they should be with a like minded partner.<br />
Just a thought.

Ha...it's not about me. I was defending others. My personal justification? Freedom. I think relationships are wonderful, beautiful things, and for some they are fulfilling in and of themselves. For others, they can be tragic disaster. And then there are those in the middle, for whom a relationship satisfies most needs, but still there is something missing.<br />
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Often, it is not a failing of one or the other partner. It's just that two people don't need to be on the same page about everything all the time. I depend on my coworkers, but I don't need to be around them all the time, and there are parts of me I would never show them. This is similar, but there is a different nuance, because the relationship is much deeper, and therefore, so is the betrayal.<br />
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For me, I enjoy doing something wrong. The id, for lack of a better term, wins out sometimes. My personal darkness runs very deep, and this I know. Suffice it to say that if I did not let it run loose in this manner, it would break through eventually in a much more horrible fashion. To protect myself and those I care about, I could never let this happen. So I keep my partner far from my darkness, as well as my friends.<br />
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To let it feast on sexual desire once in a while keeps it quiet, for a time...that is the only way I know how to cope with it for now. To look at it another way, when I have done it, it's not even really me. It's me looking through the eyes of the other inside me. While I have control most of the time, I do enjoy how free the other is, and part of me wishes I could surrender to it all the time...

P-I-I-I-NG! Oops! I cast the first stone! Joking! So, what are your justifications of wanting an affair? :)