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Ep And Facebook

In recent times there has been much discussion in regards to the Facebook share feature. I believed it was removed if you had the right settings on your account. I like many others have been fooled into thinking that.

I am very annoyed that EP has pulled a swifty.

Why is EP so hell bent on sharing stories with Facebook when many are against the idea.

I was going to include screenshots showing members what actually happens to the F share button but alas I can't post images here. For some reason I can't post them on my blog.

Here are the links.
The same story.
Logged on.
http://people.smartchat.net.au/~geoff_h/EP/F-Share/Logged%20on.jpg

Not logged on.
http://people.smartchat.net.au/~geoff_h/EP/F-Share/Not%20Logged%20on.jpg

So it appears to me anyone can share a story with one single click.

Please remove it for good.

Thanking you in advance and keep up the good work.
WiseOldOwl WiseOldOwl 56-60, M 29 Responses Nov 10, 2010

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I had the experience yesterday, that on the sportclub of my children people asked me what "funnt, but impropriate posts i had on my facebook page" I had a look there and, I was just flabbergasted and in shock to shee linkes to my stories that i shared in ep with adult subjects. My face is inmy avatar, so no way around not to connect my face to my screenname. How the sence of privacy is promoted on this site, how `easy it is , with a simple click on the wrong button (I am still not aware of which button it is) On facebook i share just hi's and hello's with hundreds of F-friends from me, my children, the friends of my children, gramma, grampa etc. alday reactions without andy depths. I joined EP for a reason, like all the others. To cimmunicate with people in a secured area. How sad now to experience how vulnerable one is and a victim of the levity of the responsable people behind EP. The complaints about this issue are obviously not taken too seriously. I will start an other topic on this if neccessary, let my layer investigate the legal consequences of the way memers are informed about the promised privacy. I have delete the links from my facebook, but have received som 50 mails about these unwanted contributions. Within ep memebers are blocked from adult content,like (ow, careful with that word dob't click) under 18 members, but all the under 18 on my facebook can read this without protection. So it has moere sides than only my privacy and reputation.

Experiences are shared between people and groups, analog to sharing communities like CSA of Landmark, where privicy is sacred. So it should be on EP. If not, I am defenitely be out, AND I will post to all my members WHY I am out an WHAT the RISKS are on this site. And don't give me a worthless answer that we should realize that the internet is never save. We know that, nothing new. If the FB and twitter buttons will not be removed, especially where adult content is concerned, I will undertake action as described. I will post this also to whatever EP-admin and such I can find on this site. I am veryyyyy disappointed. For security reasons I will change my avatar into one of those umpersonal prefab pics. Too bad. I will give EP 1 week to solve this issue and if not I'm out but not without leaving a message about this to all members.

Thankyou for your long and differing point of view. It's always good to have different perspectives, it may help others in their decision making. That's what this is about, choices.



Much of what has been said has more to do with another thread of mine. "Why I am against any affiliation with face book.



EP Link



Much of what I have said there comes from my previous profession, and have provided links including some to IT industry organisations. In other words, don't just take my word for it, read the articles.



The purpose of this post was to alert members of EP who are concerned with the facebook links and were led to believe that the buttons had been removed if they chose the appropriate settings on their account THAT THE LINKS ARE STILL THERE WHEN VIEWED WITH OUT BEING LOGGED BY USER NAME AND PASSWORD.



As I said a few days back, this is no longer a matter of having the links or not. It's about integrity, honesty and ethics.



We were told we would have what was requested, have the buttons removed from certain members stories and have found they have only been hidden.

In the above post are the words



"on Nov 13th, 2010 at 4:54PM



WiseOldOwel: Of course the links are"



We can't address members like that any more unless you are absolutely certain the user has not chosen to hide the user name etc. It's not the writers fault, I am having trouble getting used to it also. Perhaps the writer misspelt it on purpose :)



Before I logged on my user name and avatar were hidden. At least that works. Not so the f buttons.



Just something else I'd like to make sure you understand. I have nothing against the good people from facebook. If they want to join EP due to the guidelines as to what the site is about, that's fine by me.



The situation I'm in means if I write something here it's seen by my circle and those in the group the story is in. Several people I know here have a similar situation and others have contacted me to advise they are in a similar situation.



So when a story is written it may be seen by (for example) 200 members. That's worldwide. I only know of one other member within 20 miles from me. It happens to be my daughter. Anything I say here I can say to her so it's no problem.



In the past (and I hope it continues) many stories have been written in order for people to get sympathy, advise, comfort and understanding to help them overcome their issues. And in most cases it works.



However, all that good can be easily undone when some selfish heartless person writes silly remarks on the comments. Things like "ya probably deserved it" on a rape victims story. I felt sick when I read that.



Getting back to me. The last time I looked there was over 13% of the towns population on face book. In that 13% there is a large number that like making the sort of comment I referred to.



If the unfortunate victim has similar demographics the chances of having damaging comments is vastly increased as is the chance of being identified by other members of the community.



And the chances of improving their situation reduces. Just because someone has clicked the f share button and advertising the story.

I do have an innactive facebook account. As I found out yesterday you can not delete a facebook account. I have removed all personal data from it, faked my age and deleted all activity and friends there then deactivated it. I wrote about that elsewhere.



The issue of why people don't want any involvement with facebook varies and that is not the issue here. We have been told that the links to facebook have been removed if you make the settings accordingly, and they are not.



Thanks BF. All we can do is remain united in the hope we can have this resolved.

As you probably know I have not been very active here for a while. Then I spend more time here and find this. I could just walk away from it all, however I can see many are against these links.

Let's get EP back to the way it was with people contributing stories of their life's experiences, not deleting or editing them as I have been doing, not for me so much as others. I respect their choice of privacy. Now we must think twice before doing things like wishing someone a happy birthday. That sucks the life out of EP.



I'm sorry but if you don't understand that then maybe you don't belong here. If EP INC doesn't understand that then maybe the people here that have developed friendships here no longer belong here.

HonestHeart, could please read my previous comment. The links are still on the story when NOT LOGGED ON to EP as a user.



Thus this story can be seen from facebook when I have chosen not to have my stories linked to facebook.



I am not alone with my concerns. Do a search for EP and facebook.



Elfinsong, thank you.



EP Link

WiseOldOwl,



You are more than welcome to link my story to yours............ Thank you for asking



Love, Light and Blessings,



Elf

These links are the very ones that EP claimed to have removed from stories by members who have elected not to have stories shared on facebook by way of these links. Sure anyone can copy and paste the URL anywhere, send the link via email or copy it to a html document.. They need to find it first.



What we don't want is broadcasts on facebook.

The images I refer to is what is seen when viewing the page without being logged, that's why you wont see the links behind the image.



It would be hypocritical of me to include the entire hyperlink in the story when I so much against them.



The evidence. These are the details of the links on this page prior to my logging on with user name / password. Once logged on they are removed.



http://www.facebook.com/login.php?api_key=127760087237610&skip_api_login=1&display=popup&social_plugin=like&external_page_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.experienceproject.com%2Fstories%2FWant-To-Improve-The-Experience-Project%2F1264957&next=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fconnect%2Fuiserver.php%3Fsocial_plugin%3Dlike%26external_page_url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.experienceproject.com%252Fstories%252FWant-To-Improve-The-Experience-Project%252F1264957%26method%3Dopt.inlike%26display%3Dpopup%26app_id%3D127760087237610%26from_login%3D1 />


The only way we have control is to start deleting stories despite what EP are saying.

This is no longer a question of having the facebook links. I've found the answer elsewhere.



It's about ethics and honesty.



No one has disputed the screen shots I've provided.



We have been told miss-truths about the links being removed from stories by authors with the updated security settings. Some one has stated that search results will not bring up these stories. That too is incorrect.



We have been told that EP receives no financial gain from these links.

We have been told it's a monumental task to remove the links.

It's just a few lines of code to be removed.

Again I'm guessing. A contact may be monumental to break.



What these links do is increase traffic on both sites. My guess is that increases the ratings of both sites resulting in higher revenue from advertising. It's a process known as parasiting.



Why can't EP come out and say it?



EPNeil is the only EP staff member that appears to be taking me seriously. Thank you Neil.

I'm afraid it is. (It was nice to be able to address my friend by their EP name)



I can say though that some comments here are by EP User when not logged on, so on behalf of those members, thank you EP.



Some comments relate to security. I can see two aspects of security on any social networking site. First is the risk of trojans and other virus being spread by various sites as was the case some months back. Facebook, YouTube, Yahoo, Myspace were effected. I know, I was repairing the PCs.



I can say I observed no such activity on EP.



Secondly, and more importantly is personal security, and privacy. The very nature of EP is such that as we contribute stories and or comments we create a profile of ourselves. If people like that profile they may become friends. In the legal sense, that's how profiling works.



Then we are advised not to give out personal information to protect ourselves.



So the "experiences" become fiction, just like most of Facebook.



My question still stands, which no one from EP has addressed to date.



"Why is EP so hell bent on sharing stories with Facebook when many are against the idea."



Or any other site?

Hang on .. I didnt realise it had anything to do with the like button.



Is this true?

OOOOOKAAAAA!!!Enough already. When I pressed the discreet button on my account I thought that was eexactly what I would have. I'm so mixed up now I don't know what to do!! I thought the like button showed the person you like what they said! Why does'nt it have FaceBook written on It? It's a square that merely says like. Now Somebody better get their act together on the EP crew, or EP is going to be a figment of everyone's imagination' The site will fall apart!! For Gods Sake Look at us we are all getting suspicious. I pay to be here, a LOT of members do, and You people who call yourself volunteers are making money or you would not be here. I really want answers because if I google my name and find My stories, I'll sue you people in a heartbeat. I have a lawyer.

I'm really upset now, instead of just veering back and forth on what to do!! I know what I'll do if I

find my privacy violated and I paid for having it done!! No way EP Fix it now , Tell us now. If you do not do it right away, there are plenty of insecure members wqho will take care of it for you!!

To bassplayer's comment about security and being unable to copy/paste.



Trust me, ANYTHING you can view on your monitor, can be recorded, copied, pasted, skewed, tranversed, inversed, sepia'd, and stamped and sent to mammy. Just gotta know what to use or how to use what.

EPArsineh you speak with a bit of a forked tongue on this one. I can say this because you use me to advertise EP. Punch my user name into google and what I have wrote come's up BUT on top of that you use the picture I use on your advertisment but dont show my profile BUT you tell right there that if they want to read my profile all they have to do is JOIN EP. I have not posted anything to feel it would give me away but my point is that YOU CHOSE to sell me down the river in your advertisement. You Chose to tell the world how to read my profile yet you want to butter us. You want to butter me then remove me from your advertisement.

You CAN make pages so you can't copy and paste the links for sharing.

MSN video and companies selling photos have had this security in place for years. You can't right click and copy, ctrl+C does not work and the url on the top of the page does not coincide with the content. I don't know how they do it, but any site wanting to protect their content has this feature in place. You could have something similar applied to certain aspects of this site like stories by members set to discreet and their blogs but not to the public areas.

We've removed the FB like button for members who don't want to use it and don't want to run the risk of clicking it by accident.



We've also added more privacy options for members who set their account to discreet. So if anyone does share a link, on FB or through an email, any non-EP member who visits the site will not have access to your username or profile picture.



We are now adding the option to hide your profile picture AND username in the comments section of stories, confessions and petitions from anyone who lands on the page and is not logged in to EP (including search engines). This option will soon be available under 'account settings' for users who are set to 'discreet' mode. This gives more privacy options than we've ever had, and we think it's a great idea that came from the community. Most of the code is done, but the interface to set it isn't quite wrapped up yet--but it'll be available soon.

To remove the buttons from our sight but to leave them for outsiders to use is nothing less than deceptive.

The war is still on.

I personally have little stake in this as the stories posts etc. could do little damage to me publically.

I don't fully open my life as an easy to read book because I don't trust the internet.



i do have a stake in it nonetheless because my friends and other members have an issue with it.

EP needs to be a place we can trust to understand our wants and needs.

If that is not the case and soon there will be an exodus from the site and it could potentially fail which I think no one really wants.

We need to work our way through this without the canned responses.........I think we all need to focus on this problem in one spot.

If we all go to Arsineh's link and discuss it there all of us can see what the thread really is and can share not only info but ideas.

To try to do this bouncing from one to another story when there are probably 25 stories is getting old and the sharing of ideas is next to impossible



Love, Light and Blessings,



Elf

I hope Armen will respond to this

It does leave a rather bad taste in my mouth that the button was removed from our stories only when we could see it. I asked this very question on two stories yesterday, if it was removed only for discreet setting members on their own stories, yet remained for public setting members and others. This is indeed the case, and it feels like a bit of trickery. People were celebrating a victory...oh, yay!!...the buttons is gone!!!!...when in fact it was only gone from their own sight but was still there for the strangers we especially don't want using it.



Something about the way this was done makes me feel like I was treated like a child!

Have you written to Armen privately ?

Posted by EPArmen on Nov 10th, 2010 at 2:59AM



WOO, I appreciate your post, but we've taken actions to remove the button for the people that don't want it, lest they accidentally click a Facebook 'like' button. That's us listening to the community and trying to make tangible changes that help make the site better to use for each member.



You HAVE NOT. It's still there. Whatever you may have done didn't work.

videodemon wrote: "You can't use the button unless you have both a Facebook account, and are logged in to it. EP has no idea what you're doing with that Like button-- it's an iframe to Facebook. It can't be auto-clicked, and accidental clicks can be undone easily. "



That is incorrect. Both buttons are there when NOT LOGGED ON to EP. See my links above. It's the same for this story. Followed the link in the email from EP and both buttons are there. Login and they're gone.



What the Facebook share button does is it allows any non EP member to share any story on Facebook. This story could be shared yet I have no control over it.



And yet EP want us to believe otherwise.



The question remains. Why have the Facebook buttons in the first place?



Many people come to EP to get away from sites like Facebook and now they find they haven't.



The only reason I have against links to Facebook is that I don't want my ex wife hounding my friends here.



This place will become facebook if we start writing stuff and leaving out personal details. Our past experiences are what identifies us. Following EPs rules or suggestions means removing so much fact it may as well be fiction.

Hello videodemon. I think you have hit the nail on the head regarding the fact that it is OUR responsibility to safeguard our own anonymity here on EP. I believe that the sore feelings came from members realizing that anything they posted here on EP -- stories, comments, confessions, and blogs -- could be brought to the attention of the "general Facebook community" if anybody "fb-iiked" a story which included their content.



"Discreet" does NOT mean "anonymous". It is the same as dressing in discreet way so that you don't attract too much attention.



:)



AP

owl, what exactly are the security risks of having a Facebook button? It's a sharing helper, nothing more, and is just the latest in a long line of sharing tools that help the internet become what it is.



I'm not sure you really understand what that button does, and are really worried about something that is not only insignificant, but pervasive.



You can't use the button unless you have both a Facebook account, and are logged in to it. EP has no idea what you're doing with that Like button-- it's an iframe to Facebook. It can't be auto-clicked, and accidental clicks can be undone easily.



And to my knowledge, there is no "bot network" that can simultaneously log in to millions of fake Facebook accounts and "like" things. Even if there was, the bots wouldn't have any friends to broadcast their 'fake' likes to, not to mention Facebook itself would be really dropping the ball if it couldn't detect millions of fake accounts fake liking all day long. Plus, what would be the purpose to fake like on fake accounts-- and moreover, what is the relevance to this discussion?



But none of that even matters. It seems all you're really trying to say, and not maliciously so,, is 'I don't like this button, so make it go away' and coming up with reasons as to why you and others shouldn't like it. Many of EP's stories are awesome, and there is no reason to make sharing those stories hard (notice I didn't say prevent sharing, because you CANNOT prevent sharing public content, no matter what EP tries to do). Today, sharing happens on Facebook. Tomorrow, it will happen on Twitter (mark my words)... and the buttons will change, I'm sure.



No one is being forced to do anything. Just follow EP's OWN rules about not revealing your personal info in public posts.

Hello Armen, if you read my last story in this group, you would know that my take on the privacy/ anonymity offered by EP is... "izokay".



I am okay, mainly because I am anonymous in my behaviour here on EP.



BUT I do think that you as EP founder/ admins need to revisit the language which you use to explain what a "discreet" profile is. Because even I was misled by your wording, and I am a former lawyer and a dogged "anonymist". Your language in the guidance notes for "Privacy Settings" is simply too loose for you to avoid responsibility for the disappointed and panicked reactions of many of your members.



Eg. if you felt the need to warn users explicitly that "public" postings could be unearthed by search engines such as Google, why not give a similar warning for the "discreet" profile? That sloppy drafting was the kind of "twisty" (and kind of slippery) drafting which rookie lawyers try to pull off in maybe their first two years of practice. I know that you guys are not malicious. No way!



:)



Thank you.



Andrew

I'm sorry EPArmen. You too are not listening. The link is still there and active for anyone that is not logged in. Again, why have the links? They are a well known security risk but more to the point people are sharing their stories on EP for EP members, not the rest of the world.



I understand the rest of the world has access to these stories, and that is yet another security risk to some. Not me but others.



videodemon, I am well aware of the nature of the internet with over ten years experience in IT. The button allows a bot to do the searching and saving. This is why many sites now have a graphic of a code to manually entered, machines can't do that...yet.



And I won't be addressing this matter privately as I'm doing it for the benefit of concerned EP members.

owl, people share stuff online, it's simply how the internet works, and it seems you realize that. The reality is button or not, people will share great stuff they find-- and I'm glad they do, as that's how people find amazing things to read. There's a jillion tools here that let you share exactly how you want, so just use what makes the most sense for you.

WOO, I appreciate your post, but we've taken actions to remove the button for the people that don't want it, lest they accidentally click a Facebook 'like' button. That's us listening to the community and trying to make tangible changes that help make the site better to use for each member.



More generally, remember anyone can link any *public* piece of content anywhere on the internet. Be safe and be aware, and follow our rules on what can be posted, and what can't (specifically, no publicly identifiable information like phone numbers, addresses, etc.), and there's nothing to worry about (your anonymity cannot be compromised if there's nothing to identify you in a post, right?).



Whether it's easy or hard to share something (email was the first form of 'sharing') doesn't prevent the underlying architecture of the internet, and pretending that a link to a piece of content can't be shared is just sticking heads in the sand instead of helping people act safely online.



And why have the link? Before Facebook buttons, we had 'addthis' buttons. Before 'addthis' buttons, we had 'sharethis' buttons. They all did the same thing-- in fact they provided sharing to 3 dozen sites, and now we have simplified it to the only ones that people actually use-- Facebook, Twitter, and e-mail. Since year one, we've heard people tell us that the stories on EP are life-changing and they know JUST the person that would benefit from seeing it. How many members have found the site from searching, or from being told by a friend (90%+)-- should they not have the opportunity to discover EP if someone wants to share it with them?



And so on. I'm hoping this addresses your concerns both specifically and categorically, and if it doesn't, feel free to send me a private message and I'll be happy to discuss further. We appreciate the passion more than you know-- it means people love EP and want it to be its best. We are honestly always listening and trying to improve, in all ways.

I'm afraid it doesn't. Did you read my comments on your story? Did you look at the links I provided?



Sure, anyone can search a site, troll it, EVEN A MACHINE can do it, linking those stories to Facebook because EP provides the link.



This is Cloud networking gone berserk.



But again, why have the link in the first place?

I just posted a story that I hope will address all your concerns over FB sharing and privacy on EP. EP Link