Justify

  I just want to know (anybody can put their input in this) how do HOMOSEXUALS (LESBIANS, GAYS, BI-SEXUALS) justify having a CHURCH? like a homosexual church? I mean, how can you have the sheer audicity to preach God's word about right and wrong and the way you should be living; all the while you're doing the one thing that he absolutely hates? 

Somebody ...opinions...anybody...

lostprophet lostprophet
22-25, F
35 Responses Mar 5, 2009

Cheleanne, <br />
sure, i'd love to answer your question! <br />
but first let's use the words i used, and not replace them with your words.<br />
<br />
Now, should ANY of us feel comfortable going into a church because i guess "we all sin".<br />
<br />
Okay now, first of all, everybody is not living a secular lifestyle. Everybody is<br />
not going to clubs, cursing, murdering, fornicating, etc-right? so you're saying that the people who do not do all of this, should feel "uncomfortable"? right? hmm...<br />
<br />
God is a forgiving God. so, say a homosexual was going to church, why wouldn't he get saved and get forgiven for his sins? i mean, I would feel mighty "uncomfortable" going hearing how God thinks homosexuality is a abomination-knowing i was one. Then again, if you're so far off in your mess, i'm sure you don't feel any guilt, i assume. Why would a murderer go to church not get forgiven? <br />
<br />
and i understand your point of view...some. He does dislike all sin. But do you see churches that cater to Murderers, Rapists, wife beaters, animal abusers, child molesters etc.. NO..but you will find ones that are ran by gay people. <br />
<br />
I think you kinda..well no, you did get off topic. My post was about homo's running churches in the name of GOD. What's there to preach? Everything their for, God's<br />
against. What is there to say? ...be nice to all? That's mere works. <br />
<br />
But yeah, let me wrap this on up. I haven't made my point 100% clear..hmm..what more do you want me to say? like..i mean..any more q's dont hesitate to ask, and i'll answer if i can. <br />
<br />
thanks for the q :) i enjoyed answering it.

Ok everyone calm down... geeze! This is a discussion - not a boxing ring!<br />
<br />
LP, I understand what you are saying. And I believe in your right to say it. And, in fact, I have read that part of the Bible that says about a man not laying with another man, and a woman not laying with a woman. But I have a question for you - maybe you can answer this.<br />
<br />
If homosexuals, gays, etc., should feel uncomfortable going into a church because of what and who they are, I'm wondering why ANY of us should feel comfortable going to church? <br />
<br />
I guess I'm a little confused with this because being gay is a sin...yes... but so is being a sloth (lazy), being a murderer, etc. <br />
<br />
I totally understand your point of view, but I always thought God disliked ALL sin.... if you could, please clear this up for me because I'm not sure you have made your point 100%.<br />
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Thanks!! :-)

I think their point is having a gay church is to want to be Christians without giving up their sin, or else why would you say it was a gay church? Is there a murderer church?

i'm not finished. <br />
<br />
I guess because you're parents didn't believe in anything except a bottle- i can't expect much more. <br />
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after all, the trash don't fall far from the truck! <br />
<br />
i guess because you're a raging alcoholic-you don't believe God would put "you" through all of that, so you -in return-don't believe. <br />
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lol.

The Bible! <br />
Does the Bible not say homosexuality is a abomination? Or do you even read it to know what it says? <br />
<br />
I can say it! Prophecies in the Bible have happened. Lol obviously you're one fo the ones who are dragging here to stir up ****. <br />
<br />
Or..is it possible that I'm talking about homosexuals-and it's struck a nerve with you? Am i insulting you and your..friends? <br />
<br />
Lol, you're way too old to try and play games -leave it to the kidz.

I agree! ... but i'm talking about homosexuals<br />
yeah, i've watched the Christian shows. I've never watched one who didn't believe in the Rapture. <br />
<br />
and obviously it has not come..but what does that have to do with what i'm talking about? I'm not damning them. The whole reason of the post is..how do homo's feel justified by having a church and preaching? <br />
Wrong is wrong! <br />
so..where were you going with this?

Lots of people...Say or practice lots of things in Church that dont line up with God..Im sure not just Gay people?<br />
Have you ever wacthed Christian Tv...It is crazy how differnt styles are...One will beg for money,another a flashy dressed..Some say Rapture Yes others say No...Some dont think women should preach,<br />
Unless someone has studied the Bible in all its forms,Hebrew..knows all the root meanings and has it all storie for story memorized...Pretty much I dont really think they know what is what...<br />
We all have to remember...Truly Judgement day hasnt come yet!We are not the judge...Sure we have to make good Judgement,but we do not know peoples hearts...I am not gay...But i can not damn them.If it is meant for God to do so he will..Right...<br />
Maybe God will find them...all things are possible

oh yeah.

Homosexuality is self indulgence.....the plan of God was '...to go forth and populate."<br />
<br />
A church for homosexuals ? Well it is a hospital for sinners, not a social club for saints !

thanks for that, hun

King James commissioned scholars to go back to the original text in Hebrew and Greek and make one translation to correct all the changes made to the Bible over the centuries.<br />
<br />
Therefore , the King James version of the Bible is the most accurate of all the versions available.....a direct translation from original text !

Thank you, fe45au for your comment.

LP,<br />
We're in times where right is wrong and wrong is right. Every man does what is right in his own eyes.<br />
<br />
People who are homosexual have accepted a lie, but they still feel the need for God. There are many churches that don't have homosexuals in them that are dead. It is the same situation.<br />
<br />
Baskit, The standards weren't set up by us, but by God. He did it to keep us from getting hurt. Nothing I believe will determine how you will be judged, only what God states. We have become immuned to the homosexual lifestyle being wrong.<br />
<br />
My friends who are lesbian know how I feel that I don't agree with them, but I can still love them and pray for them. They know not to hit on me. <br />
Personally, I believe a lot of lesbians have chosen that way because of past abuse. It just isn't safe to be with men. They know women and can relate to them. Much easier. <br />
My homosexual friends would do anything for me. Super nice guys. I find them somehow easier to relate to, but I know that what they are involved in is sin. <br />
We all sin though. <br />
<br />
Stormy, you're right to hate against injustice. We need to stand up for right things.<br />
<br />
There will be a time when God will right the injustices of the world. There will come a time when God has had enough of man's desire to pursue evil rather than Him. He has been patient with us and desires a relationship with us. When we desire to go our own way there are consequences to it, here on earth and after we die.<br />
The choices we make here on earth will determine our eternity.<br />
<br />
Good discussion about a touchy subject. elaine

Don't ever apologise for your comments-they're your opinions. All lengths are fine as long as you're not being disrespectful towards me. <br />
But wait a minute honey, sure, i'm PROUD of what i believe in when somebody's trying to attack me from all angles. Just because I don't take my opinion down after a few "hecklers" try to MAKE me change my mind don't make me a arrogant person. Yep-i'm proud to stick firmly by what I mean! Now if you're not then that's your problem! People love to throw up "people sin everyday" why should you be concerned about what PEOPLE do everyday? Prostitutes have sex for money everyday-would you use that if you were a theif? What's the point? Yes, peole do sin, BUT if you're not a sinner, then what's the point? Funny how you WRONGFULLY assume i'm proud (arrogant etc) but next think you blurt out is Judge not lest ye be judged. You're judging ME by caling me proud-and you obviously know nothing about me besides what i want to share. I'm not really judging i'm more of ...stating my opinion and what's in the bible. It's a ABOMINATION for a man to lay with another man! Right or wrong..or you want to twist that up? Now because of me saying that I don't understand how a ABOMINATION is having a CHURCH makes me judgemental? My intentions are to only ask the simple question-how do they justify their actions, bottom line! I'm not here to minister! I'm simply stating my opinions-most don't like them so that brings on what THEY consider drama. How are you to know if a homosexual "struggles" with it? If you're a OPEN gay or lesbian-and have a church then where is the struggle? Oh, and okay so the gay churches-with OPENLY HOMOSEXUAL pasters are in church to seek forgiveness-for what dear? They don't see theirselves as being in the wrong. They just view it as a lifestyle choice. It's funny how the world loves to jump to homosexuals sides when debates arise; now don't get me wrong-i'm not for no will never be for picking on and killing them because their different. But i'm just saying. Oh, don't get me wrong i'm far from homophobic-i have gay friends. Yes everyone of us does have equal opportunity for salvation or damnation-i couldn't agree more. But playing church and then going home and playing house isn't approprite. Yes we should all more like him..but that's like saying everybody should be a millionaire, some things just aint gonna happen. I wish it could..i wish it would..but hey.. You feel i'm lacking love-lol well thanks for NOT BEING JUDGEMENTAL. Lol..hmmm put a bit of thought to what ur going to say before you contradict yourself. And re-think my approach? Maybe you need to re-read what my origional post was because I believe you're a bit confused about what I said or meant. It's a simple question/statement-how do homosexuals justify having churches. point blank. Now..what part of that needs to be reapproached? A simple question that people are obviously twisting and turning into something that's not needed.

"I honestly don't think a homosexual should comfortably worship a God who clearly tells them that their lifestyle is wrong. They should feel convicted, they should feel guilty."<br><br />
<br><br />
As imperfect humans we ALL sin, and continue to daily. No human being is sinless or faultless or perfect. You and I both, as sinners, should by rights feel as convicted and guilty as you say homosexuals should feel. Your lifestyle is wrong, my lifestyle is wrong. The human lifestyle is wrong or we wouldn't have needed Christ to save us. <br><br />
All sins are equal in God's eyes. Sexual immorality as the Bible phrases it is just as bad as lying, stealing, gluttony, or your sin lostprophet, PRIDE. <br><br />
Judge not lest ye be judged. It is God's duty to judge us and to punish us should he see fit. Your attitude seems unjustifiably judgmental. Homosexual and Christian are not mutually exclusive.<br><br />
I see your intentions are good, I see you are trying to minister to people you consider lost. Consider a kinder, humbler route. As I said none of us are without sin. How can you judge a homosexual that struggles with it and is otherwise a good person, as worse than someone who say, gambles or steals or lies? Whether a believer of God has one sin or the other does not matter if they try their hardest to live as good people and ask for forgiveness for their weaknesses. Which would be WHY I would think, that they would attend church. To seek wisdom and strength and forgiveness of an almighty God, just as other sinners do. Just as you do.<br><br />
I myself do not believe in homosexuality as a personal choice, but I would never exclude from my presence or friendship or kindness anyone who was, the same as I wouldn't someone who occasionally lies or had sex before they were married or who acted out as a teenager. I will not judge others based on their sins, for *I* am a sinner, we are all sinners, and we are all God's children. Every one of us has an equal opportunity for salvation, or damnation.<br><br />
Jesus in his perfection had love for every human regardless of their sins and faults. We should all strive to be more like him. Tolerance and understanding stem from that love, and I feel you are lacking in it. I hope as a devoted Christian you can find it again and re-think your approach to this subject.<br />
Apologies for the length of this comment. :)

Spirit loves all, lostprophet.

thanks for the comment :]

'all the while you're doing <i>the one thing</i> that he absolutely hates?' Perhaps it was just awkwardly phrased, but you gave the impression of saying it there XD<br />
I'm not justifying my actions as not being a Christian I don't feel the need to, I was just explaining why some gay people feel they should have the same right to worship as hetros, as I stated above I agree with you that they shouldn't, though for different reasons of course :)

Wickedgame: <br />
:) Hun. When did I once say that there were not other things God did not like besides homosexuality. So don't assume I didn't take time to read it. let's stay on topic here. <br />
I honestly don't think a homosexual should comfortably worship a God who clearly tells them that their lifestyle is wrong. They should feel convicted, they should feel guilty. You're clearly as you said a homosexual and you'll go to the ends of the earth to justify your actions! I really hope you see the light one day-

The5c's<br />
thanks for the comment

Also I would like to add we need to seperate God and religion. There is no "chosen people" and no "chosen religion" just the truth and God. Also if you read Isaiah (old testament) you'll see there are many prophecies concerning Jesus (amongst other books like Jeremiah) and Jesus perfectly matches that messiah thats described. Don't see why he'd fake and pretend to the messiah either since he was hated, tortured and crucified and exactly the same way he was predicted to in the old testament. So you see there is little incentive to pretend to be the messiah! Anayway I think I'm rambling on a bit now

God created men free and so people should feel free to be either bisexual/gay/lesbian without anyone being hostile towards them (love thy neighbour) But it is a sin that is specifically mentioned in the bible under sexual immorality. So whereas you may believe in God you are not living the way he intended and are continuing to sin. I feel a bit of a hypocrite since I continue to sin myself!!

Well, it's not the ONE thing he absolutely hates, you'll find there are many things condemned more rigorously than homosexuality in the Bible if you take the time to read it XD<br />
As I'm sure you are aware, there is much debate over the content of the Bible, and whether much of what's written there is still relevant today, or even whether what's in it now is what was originally intended (after all the translations and the heavy editing by the church in the Middle Ages, it can't be wholy reliable). Some would argue that as Jesus never personally condemned homosexuality, it's not anywhere near as much of an issue as many of the things hetrosexual 'Christians' get up to that is in direct conflict with his teachings, and if these people are allowed to practice their faith why shouldn't members of the LGBT community? <br />
Also, it can be argued much of what is written in the Bible most likely a result of the times it was written in. You have to remember that the Bible was written by human hands, even if it was inspired by God, and that the author's own prejudices most likely played a part in what they wrote. Much of what is written in the Bible is not taken literally today (things such as stoning insolent children and killing women who don't cry out during rape), so why should the passages on homosexuality be different? (especially given one of the most commonly cited condemnations of it is in Leviticus, read it and you'll see how weird some of the commands in that Book are XD). <br />
Personally though, as a gay person and an ex-catholic myself, I don't see why anyone would want to be part of a church that has killed and punished people like them for something they can't change for so long, but it's their perogative I suppose.<br />
Hope that answered your question a little :)<br />
(btw, I'm sorry if that seems a little bit rambling, lol, but I hope you get what I'm saying anyway XD)

BaskitCase:<br />
I wasn't upset-so there was no need to calm down. you expressed your view points so i was just replying to it! No harm meant, just my opinions and beliefs. <br />
Pairing up means dating etc in my opinion-which usually leads to sex. <br />
How can have a relationsip with somebody you neither believe in nor claim? <br />
You can go in a long drawn out case of the bible's creations-it STILL is not relivant to my topic. <br />
The world will end in a cruel way! I said it i meant it. America is the "leading" country yet- simple black vs. white, males vs. females etc. For instance, Maldoff-he's stolen 50 mil and he's only on house arrest so far? Let it woulda been a black man-he would be in jail to this day. What about the injustice and how the media ignores Megan Williams. Who? <br />
The black young woman who was RAPED and TORTURED by a group of white hillbilly trash for pure entertainment. Did the media show that for DAYS ON END? But natalie hollaway..terry shiavo, that gets media attentino for weeks on end? Lol...i'll blog about that later so please ALL WHO READ stay posted for that. <br />
:)

so no comment for the bible references,,,that sucks,,,oh well later dude

Sorry, SNS , I wrote that comment AT THE SAME time as you wrote yours,, it was not a reply to you! :¬)<br />
I did not mean you needed to let go of your hate.. <br />
If you have some tho... well it is a poison, in my veiw.

You're right, you can't prescribe a belief to someone.....I tried it one time, it didn't work. :) <br />
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God loves everyone, but He hates sin and injustice.<br />
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I'm not God, so I won't define sin.

what they are doing is the same sorry activate going on in your christan world,,,God Loves everybody,,,and he is no respecter of persons,,,you seem to know alot about the bible show me where scripture tells you christians are Gods choosen,,and another question I have for you is show me some where in the word where it tells you that Christ is The Lion Of Juda,,,now don't give me chapter 5 in revalation because if that is all you guys have you diffenently got it wrong,,,Love and Light make everything right,,,good luck to you and your truth,mary

I don't hate! <br />
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Well....maybe I do.....but only occasionally.....<br />
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....and only things like "injustice."<br />
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:D

you cannot prescribe a belief to people.. why should they be alone forever? Or should they marry someone of the opposite sex, simply to fit-in with YOUR idea of what is sin?

Would justice be to "end in a cruel way" ?<br />
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Cruelty ...would not be cruelty if it was justified!<br />
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Need to stop hating.

"The world will end in a cruel way-and it totally deserves what ever hell will happen to it"<br />
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The world is about 90% bad -thanks to sin. I think that LostProphet meant that the world and its sin will be judged -as it should be. I for one am sick of all the injustice in it!<br />
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"I am neither religious nor homosexual, but I see the world being over-populated. I see many lonely, lonely people. I see stories about orphans who nobody will adopt. Rich people in the 'developed' countries paying for artificial conceptions.. ...while children in the food-producing countries starve."<br />
<br />
<br />
^some examples of injustices.

Ok,, I say "pair-up because we don't all have sex. <br />
In fact you probably can't call it sex if it does not have any chance of producing offspring!<br />
When you say "God has told..." you are expressing your opinion/belief as if it were fact. This does not agnowledge the validity of opposing views.<br />
My relationship with God is just fine, thanks for not totally assuming anything tho!! :¬D<br />
My problem with scripture is it is not first-hand, it is WRITING, it was written in ink, not by a divine hand, but by successive generations of human hands. <br />
Many of whom were Roman. Chauvanist, Imperial, Rome only adopted Christianity for it's own selfish ends.<br />
<br />
The Bible is not one book. It is a "suggested reading" list of books. A collection. By different authors. They have their names in there.. they do not claim to be taking dictation directly from God. Who made the selection? Which books did they miss out in the final edit?<br />
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Revelations does not fit well with the rest of the Bible. <br />
How can you be a Christian and yet say : "The world will end in a cruel way-and it totally deserves what ever hell will happen " that does not sound like something Jesus would say, my friend. Even my evil 2nd profile isn't THAT negative! <br />
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I really don'yt understand your last statement , would you expand on it please?<br />
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Thanks. :¬)

Hey slow down!!!<br />
Calm down too! You invited me to talk, please dont chase me away!

And I was not talking about the world's condition. The world will end in a cruel way-and it totally deserves what ever hell will happen to it-the bible must fufill itself. <br />
God is GOD for a reason; not to put idiots on eart to run things the way they think they should! <br />
:) thanks for your opinion.

It's in the bible-no man should lay with another man..or should i say "pair up. <br />
Putting too much importance in what God has told his children to follow? <br />
Seems like to me your first mistake is not having a relationship with God. I think you're not awknowledging our creator; and believing only in yourself. <br />
I hope you find God and Jesus before...

Well, I guess within your own church, your preaching to a congregation that agrees with you. There is no audacity needed for that. <BR><BR>I am neither religious nor homosexual, but I see the world being over-populated. I see many lonely, lonely people. I see stories about orphans who nobody will adopt. Rich people in the 'developed' countries paying for artificial conceptions.. ...while children in the food-producing countries starve.<BR><BR>I don't think God would mind if we pair-up any way we feel we personally want to..<BR>..I'm thinking your putting too much importance on some Roman men's scripture.<br />
Asolutely no offence intended..<br />
I have many religious friends and family, as well as gay friends and family..